Olympics - Beijing 2008 - Qualification paths

[JEC]

The FIE earlier this year published the following document:

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...OG-FIE-ang.pdf

Important points:

Events

Women
Women’s Individual Epee
Women’s Individual Foil
Women’s Individual Sabre
Women’s Team Foil
Women’s Team Sabre

Men
Men’s Individual Epee
Men’s Individual Foil
Men’s Individual Sabre
Men’s Team Epee
Men’s Team Sabre

Athlete Quota:
102 men
102 women
8 women or men fencers (host country)
Total of 212 athletes

The individual event brings together about 39 fencers for each weapon that has a team event and about 24 fencers for the weapons that do not have a team event. The team event brings together 8 or 9 teams for each weapon, [depending upon whether host team participates or not].

Qualification Path

For WS/WF and ME/MS:
The first four teams in the FIE Official Team Ranking (OR), irrespective of which zone. The highest-ranked team from each zone in the Adjusted FIE Team Official Ranking (AOR). Total = 8 teams of 3 fencers each; 24.

The 3 highest ranked fencers in the FIE individual AOR (eliminates countries with team), with only one fencer from any one country. The 7 highest ranked fencers from the FIE individual AOR* by zone (2 from Europe, 2 from Asia-Oceania, 2 from America and 1 from Africa) with only one fencer from any one country. The 5 highest ranked fencers from a zone-qualifying event (2 from Europe, 1 from Asia-Oceania, 1 from America and 1 from Africa) with only one fencer from any one country. In no case may a country qualify more than 3 fencers for any one weapon discipline... The continental competition is therefore open (1 fencer per country) only to those countries that have no-one selected (by team or by the individual AOR by zone).

For WE and MF:

24 places for each weapon divided as follows:
• the first 8 of the individual FIE Official Ranking
• the first 8 on the individual AOR by zone, 1 fencer per country, (3 for Europe, 2 for Asia-Oceania, 2 for America and 1 for Africa);
• the first 8 from the continental competitions (1 fencer per country and per weapon) which are open to those countries which have no-one selected by the two preceding criteria for the weapon concerned (3 for Europe, 2 for Asia-Oceania, 2 for America and Asia-Oceania, 2 for America and 1 for Africa );
In no case may a country qualify more than 2 fencers per weapon.

FIE OFFICIAL ROLLING RANKINGS as of 31 March 2008 will be used for selection.

[KD5MDK]

So just to verify, no team will have alternates.

[JEC]

I do not know but it seems that they want to make sure that there are only 212 athletes.

If the qualifier rolling points were applied today, we would have:

WF: 1) France, 2) Russia, 3) Poland, 4) Hungary, 5) Asia: Korea, 6) Europe: Rumania, 11) America: USA; No African team, next rolling points 7) Germany (tied with Italy). China is ranked #9.

WS: 1) Russia, 2) USA, 3) Poland, 4) Hungary, 5) Europe: France, 9) Asia: Japan, 15) America: Canada; No African team, next rolling points 7) Ukraine. China is ranked #6.

ME: 1) France, 2) Germany, 3) Ukraine, 4) Italy, 5) Europe: Hungary, 10) America: USA, 15) Asia: Japan, 37) Egypt. Russia would have been out as #6; China is ranked #12.

MS: 1) France, 2) Russia, 3) Ukraine, 4) Italy, 5) Europe: Hungary, 9) Asia: Korea, 11) America: USA, 27) Africa: Tunisia; China is ranked #13.

WE:
Top 8 in rankings (CAN, GER, FRA, NED, HUN, POL, RUS, ROM)
Top 8 by zone (Europe: RUS-9, HUN-10, GER-11; Asia: JPN-17, KOR-34; America: CAN-31, VEN-53; Africa: RSA-463)
Top 8 zonal competitions.
China has fencers ranked 13, 15, 17, 19, 20 and 26.


MF:
Top 11 in rankings (ITA, ITA, ITA, GER, GER, CHN, FRA, CHN, RUS, POL, ISR) Red do not qualify - Max 2/country - Host does not count.
Top 8 by zone (Europe: FRA-12, RUS-21, GBR-23; Asia: JPN-22, JPN-26; America: USA-30, USA-39; Africa: EGY-24)
Top 8 zonal competitions.
China has fencers ranked 6, 8, 13, and 40.

[misha]

Originally Posted by JEC

...
Max 2/country - Host does not count.
...

I think you got host country scenario wrong - in your logic it has huge disadvantage
My guess is that Host Country can put 8 ADDITIONAL athletes to the ones already qualified....


.

[edew]

No, I think JEC is correct. China is not going to get to have the #6 in the world MF and then add two more. There's a max of 2 fencers in MF from any one country, because it does not have a team event element to it in the Olympics.

I could be wrong, though.

[seak]

Host countries don't have to qualify for any sport in the olympics (in some sports they dont even bother taking part in the qualifying competitions). That is why Greece had a baseball team at the last games.

Hence, their fencers wont count as qualifyers they will get to choose 8 fencers (I think Greece put most of their's in epee, I could be wrong about this though

[misha]

hmm...

let's see - ANY country can qualify one team of 3 in each of 4 team events and 2 fencers in each of 2 non - team events

4 x 3 + 2 x 2 = 16 fencers total

by putting 8 fencers restriction on host country you are enforcing a huge disadvantage if host country has good fencers.
As far as I know in any other sport host country has an advantage...

The way I see it:
rule of 3 fencers max in each team event and
2 fencers max in non-team event still applies to host country.
They would not allow China to put 8 fencers in MF and 0 in other weapons.
So host country is still restricted with 16 fencers maxmimum.
The advantage of host country would be 8 fencers minimum - even if they do not qualify.

Of course it looks like fencing still have a disadvantage for host country
compared to other sports... It would be similar if they allow host country to enter 16 fencers,
only then you can fully exclude host country from qualification paths.

.


P.S. Alternates do not count against qualification number - they are not considered Olympic games participants unless they have to substitute someone out of the team. If I remember correctly they do not even get to live in Olympic village


.

[Zelda]

As I understand it (based on the australian expereince at the 2000 Olympics)
A host country can add 8 additional athletes in ANY disciple. Thus we had a ME qualify through the zonal comp iirc and we had 2 more as part of our additional 8 to give us a MET. Downunder is that correct?

[alexnormann]

The host country can add 8 fencers to their total number of qualified fencers. But under no circumstances can they enter more than: 2 fencers in the categories that only have individual competitions, and 3 fencers in the categories that have both team and individual. This probably means that China won't be able to use the extra 8 places they have. Those places are then open to athletes from other countries.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Zelda

As I understand it (based on the australian expereince at the 2000 Olympics)
A host country can add 8 additional athletes in ANY disciple. Thus we had a ME qualify through the zonal comp iirc and we had 2 more as part of our additional 8 to give us a MET. Downunder is that correct?

the last two posts are correct.

(only just got back from the ukraine today :S)

[fencer08]

Originally Posted by downunder

the last two posts are correct.

(only just got back from the ukraine today :S)

sorry, Zelda and downunder are incorrect re Australia's experience in 2000.

No ME qualified directly. One WE qualified directly. Aus had 5 wild card positions (there are were 8 in Athens and 8 for Beijing because the overall numbers have changed). Aus used 3 of those for ME to form a team.

Re Beijing, China can go down the usual qualification route, subject to any restrictions (eg no more than 2 fencers in WE & MF, no more than 3 in all other events). If they do not qualilfy the maximum fencers allowed in each event, they can then use their 8 host country positions to make up the numbers. However, clearly they will try to qualify directly rather than rely on host country places because the seeding outcome for the Olympic competition would be better.
If China does not use all of their extra 8 places (eg because they have reached the maximum representatin in each event, these places will be redistributed, pursuant to the decision of the "Tripartite Commission" (refer qualification doc). This is a new concept introduced for Beijing, about which very little is known to date .....

[Zelda]

Well I did say it was if I recalled correctly. After 6 years you cant expect a girl to be perfect! Besides I fence foil...why would I even worry about the epeeists?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by fencer08

sorry, Zelda and downunder are incorrect re Australia's experience in 2000..

ah ok, my mistake.

I'd just spent 15 hours getting from a village 40 miles from Csop, Ukraine to London. Head still isn't working properly.