Entertaining Tournament Format (non-USFA)

[yomi]

omg this sounds so cool....another reason why i shoulda obtained a fake id....

too bad i don't live in texas though T_T

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I like it! But it's probably better only to do it in DE bouts, if the rules are going to change with each bout. 5 touches isn't much time to figure out and adjust to a rule that is wildly out of the ordinary.

Rules would last for your entire pool, the same way a bad director would : )

[MyrddinsPrecint]

The obvious answer is not to allow yourself to be hit at all. So, beat attack lands, then immediately parry-riposte, etc.

One of the potential rules would be "only two light actions can be called".

That would, obviously, be the thing to do AFTER you determine your ref does not have that rule. But you would still have to discover that.

[little_old_me]

Only 2-light actions count... fun for epee

[epeemike81]

One of the potential rules would be "only two light actions can be called".

That would, obviously, be the thing to do AFTER you determine your ref does not have that rule. But you would still have to discover that.

A tournament with intentionally idiosyncratic reffing is an interesting and potentially useful idea. Including this rule would move it out of the useful range, though. one of the useful lessons a student can take from this game is that one light trumps a bad ref. This potential rule would remove that value and add NOTHING.

-m

[epeemike81]

Thanks, Brian. Love you too.

No, Wayne and I were discussing it--- It might not be fun and/or useful to the competitors...

well, if it's not fun and/or useful to the competitors, Brian's assessment would appear to be dead on.

Stupid idea.

-m

[KD5MDK]

Then you get the problem of bad refs who can't remember what the rule du pool, or can't see when you're actually scoring with what the rule requires...

[MyrddinsPrecint]

A tournament with intentionally idiosyncratic reffing is an interesting and potentially useful idea. Including this rule would move it out of the useful range, though. one of the useful lessons a student can take from this game is that one light trumps a bad ref. This potential rule would remove that value and add NOTHING.

-m

Add nothing useful, absolutly. But it would add a bit to the sadistic gleam in my eye. Which doesn't mean it should be used...... It just means I like to think about it.

well, if it's not fun and/or useful to the competitors, Brian's assessment would appear to be dead on.

Stupid idea.

-m

Stupid idea-- for the fencers. And thus it would probably never happen in real life.

But this thread is not "Useful Alternate Fencing Formats." I believe the word "Entertaining" is used, and this format is, in fact, interesting to some people to think about running. Not worth running. just thinking about running.

[hello?]

I like the Texas tournament idea....We should try it in Mass. Wayne? Mike? (Of course, last week I had no idea what I was doing in sabre after five years of watching my daughter fence. I can just imagine how great I would be at foil...which I've never even watched.)

[campb1pr]

But this thread is not "Useful Alternate Fencing Formats." I believe the word "Entertaining" is used, and this format is, in fact, interesting to some people to think about running. Not worth running. just thinking about running.

And these ideas don't necessarily have to be for running a competition that people would travel to/pay for. Why not do some of these fun things in a sparring setting. Not for serious practice, but for fun, and to keep people excited about fencing, and having fun. Unlike most of us on this board, the majority of people involved in actual fencing are not likely to still be fencing in 5 years. Like many "fringe" sports these days, it is often filled with kids being pushed into it by overeager parents, and many of them depart after a short while because they are bored with it, or college kids who do not continue after they graduate for many reasons, including lack of $$$, or places to fence, but many of those who could fence don't because they lose interest after graduating. And so on.

So - in an effort to keep these more transient folks from moving on, I am glad to hear of people thinking up crazy formats and silly things that would appeal to more of our attention deficit generation.

How about a version of a pool where each fencer that wins gets to add or change a rule? And that rule is good for the rest of the pool. Or fence epee with right of way? Or fence sabre without a lamé, just a sabre mask and an overglove? Or say that only touches made while signing count. Anything that piques interest, and keeps people engaged is good in moderation. These are not people who are training to compete in the Olympics, or even World Cups, but they represent the future of our sport. The more people who we introduce to and enthuse about fencing, the more chance that we thrive in the future - whether or not they continue to practice/compete. How about that kid in your club who you can't stand, who is going to quit in 3 years. What happens when he is a Senior Producer at ESPN, and remembers what fun he had with fencing as a teenager. Or that one who just graduated from college with the sports management degree - when they get to a senior management position at the USOC... [/soapbox]

Come on - stop taking ourselves so seriously - this thread is about entertainment, not about keeping our sport pure.

[Mr Epee]

I forget where, but a friend of mine attended a fencing/poker tournament.

He had a pretty good time and won a little money.

I wasn't there, so I don't know the exact rules... but they went something like this...

$5.00 of the registration fee went into the prize money.

Every fencer got 3 cards at registration, and got additional cards for special incidents (winning bouts, winning a pool, winning a DE, fastest hit, etc.)...

But I seem to think that there was a maximum of 5-7 cards that a fencer could hold at any one time... must have been some discarding going on.

the best hand at the end of the day took home the pot.

I wasn't there, but others had fun.

[courtneyp]

I forget where, but a friend of mine attended a fencing/poker tournament.

I had thought of running something similar at our club; inspired by mountain bike races that are fairly common (or were common, in my old hometown) where racers pick up cards at different stations along the way and the best hands get prizes at the end.

I also considered doing a slight variation that was more Go Fish than Poker. We each start out with X cards. If I win a bout, then I get to trade one of my cards for any one of your cards. The winner might be the best hand at the end, or the first one to get four of a kind, or any number of things.

Maybe I'll try to get one of these going now - now that I can show proof I'm not completely crazy - that other people think up unusual tournament ideas too I got funny looks last time I brought up the cards idea at the salle.

[kilo_foxtrot]

Poker runs! People do those with cars, motorcycles, and snowmobiles all the time!

[Redblade]

We held something similar in our club, just for funsies:

Standard pool/DE format.
For each pool bout, the weapon was randomly chosen (die roll).
For each DE bout, weapons were changed randomly at each of the five-point marks (start with one, then change at 5 pts and 10) so that the full bout included all three.

[Redblade]

I forget where, but a friend of mine attended a fencing/poker tournament.

Neighboring club has done this (in Tulsa). It's a hoot.

Another $$$-based option: Buying "second chance" handicapping tickets before the event. For a buck, you can acquire, for example, one annullment (negate a touch of your choice, anytime in the tourney), or 30 extra seconds, or three meters on the strip, etc. Fencers are limited in how many tickets they can purchase based on their USFA rating (As can only buy one ticket, but Es can buy five if they so choose).

[Mr Epee]

Neighboring club has done this (in Tulsa). It's a hoot.

I'm pretty sure that's where they went.

Isn't Oklahoma also where they invented "Doubles Fencing"?

Folks must be awfully creative, or mighty bored.

[Craig]

Neighboring club has done this (in Tulsa). It's a hoot.

Another $$$-based option: Buying "second chance" handicapping tickets before the event. For a buck, you can acquire, for example, one annullment (negate a touch of your choice, anytime in the tourney), or 30 extra seconds, or three meters on the strip, etc. Fencers are limited in how many tickets they can purchase based on their USFA rating (As can only buy one ticket, but Es can buy five if they so choose).

I'd use the annullment ticket on a bout that I wasn't fencing in, just to mess with people in the bout before one of mine.

Craig

[Craig]

The other format I was discussing .... here? (Or maybe it was with Wayne again....) is a Calvinball format. There are a number of ways to score touches all put into a hat at the begining

We ran some controlled bouting like this during our college team practices. You drew a rule out of the hat and it said what you had to do.

I was always very aggressive and drew a card saying that I could not score on an attack. My opponent figured I would attack and we played a really passive game until I got bored and attacked. I scored and then told the ref that it didn't count.

During the same practice, I drew "Can only score with point in line" and my opponent drew "cannot take the blade". After a few minutes we tossed those out and drew new ones.

The fun thing about the exercise was figuring out what the other person's card was - it forced you to do more scouting at the beginning of the bout to figure out what they wanted to do.

Craig

[Goldgar]

We ran some controlled bouting like this during our college team practices. You drew a rule out of the hat and it said what you had to do.

I was always very aggressive and drew a card saying that I could not score on an attack. My opponent figured I would attack and we played a really passive game until I got bored and attacked. I scored and then told the ref that it didn't count.

During the same practice, I drew "Can only score with point in line" and my opponent drew "cannot take the blade". After a few minutes we tossed those out and drew new ones.

The fun thing about the exercise was figuring out what the other person's card was - it forced you to do more scouting at the beginning of the bout to figure out what they wanted to do.

That's reminiscent of a game I have my fencing classes play sometimes. I call it "Secret Thrust". Before every bout, each fencer secretly picks an action they want to hit with (but doesn't tell the other fencer). It can be something they're good at, or something they want to work on, or something that they think ought to work well against this particular opponent -- it doesn't matter. It can be any kind of action, so long as it's well-defined enough that there can be no doubt whether they actually executed it or not.

Whenever the fencer scores with this action in the bout, they privately (not saying anything to the other fencer) give themselves two points. So the bout has a "public score", that anyone can see, and two "private scores" (one for each fencer, that only that fencer knows about). It sounds complicated, but it isn't, really. When either fencer reaches the bout limit (5 or 10, the way we play it) on his *private score*, he announces that the bout is over and he won.

So far, so good, but there's one more piece: at the end of the bout, after the salute and handshake, each fencer has to say what he thinks the *other* fencer's secret action was. They don't get any points for this, but it's enough to make them think during the bout, not just about scoring with their own action, but also about what the other fencer is trying to do.

[KD5MDK]

During the same practice, I drew "Can only score with point in line" and my opponent drew "cannot take the blade". After a few minutes we tossed those out and drew new ones.

Craig

Remember PiL can be advanced and lunged.