How do you influence the referee on your strip?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by sabreur

You need to wear a little tinfoil cap--it helps your psychic waves get past the mesh of your mask and penetrate the ref's thick skull...

That might call for a trepanning first.

[Gav]

I like the Scottish way:

"Ref this is the Big Man he is my coach: Big Man this is the ref he is going to decide if I get a hit or not."
A few hits later ...
"Big Man this ref is saying it's not my hit. Can you help me out?"
Big Man (to ref), "Look here sonny, this is ma wee pal Gav. If he says it's his hit it's his. Got that ya wee bass. And if ye pull ane o' those moves the wrang way again ah'll rip yer heid aff - got it bawheid?"
Me, "Thanks Big Man."
Big Man, "Of yeh go. An that'll be 50 fur ma services."

of course this is a joke post. However I will rep the first person to demonstrate to me the reference I am drawing on.

[fencerchica]

Speaking as a yet somewhat inexperienced (i.e. unrated) director, I myself find it slightly rude and offensive when, after a halt, a fencer will *instantly* whip around and strut back to his/her enguarde line before I've even had an opportunity to issue a call.

To me that says, "Your call is so unimportant to me, I won't even stick around to hear it respectfully," as well as, "I'm so sure it's mine and that I know better than you, I won't even pause to hear out your call on the action."

The effect on me, far from being influenced to give the touch to that fencer, is that I suspect such a one of, in fact, using cheap tricks to attempt to influence me, and therefore make my calls all the more conscientiously, trying to be sure to resist any said influence.

[D'Art]

Originally Posted by Gav

"Ref this is the Big Man he is my coach: Big Man this is the ref he is going to decide if I get a hit or not."
A few hits later ...
"Big Man this ref is saying it's not my hit. Can you help me out?"
Big Man (to ref), "Look here sonny, this is ma wee pal Gav. If he says it's his hit it's his. Got that ya wee bass. And if ye pull ane o' those moves the wrang way again ah'll rip yer heid aff - got it bawheid?"
Me, "Thanks Big Man."
Big Man, "Off yeh go. An that'll be 50 fur ma services."

That doesn't sound too far away from what a couple of English-based fencers may actually do.......

Although I have the mental image of Sean as an "enforcer" in my head now. Not pretty at all.

[Peach]

I'm afraid I tend to zip around on the "Halt," to the point where I've been occasionally carded for turning my back when the Bad Electric Sabre Fairy keeps the light from going on, but it ain't a strut. I do it whether I got the touch or not. It's just that I'm in the bout. The touch is over and it's up to the referee now and completely out of my hands. I need to focus on the next touch. If I stand there hanging on the referee, it's as if I'm trying to suck up and influence him or her.

Now when I get back I admit I do occasionally look at the referee in puzzlement (and sometimes impassioned disbelief--I'm as bumptious as most sabre fencers) if I think the call is wrong, but as I often remind myself, I'm not the referee and I didn't see the action from the side.

Originally Posted by fencerchica

Speaking as a yet somewhat inexperienced (i.e. unrated) director, I myself find it slightly rude and offensive when, after a halt, a fencer will *instantly* whip around and strut back to his/her enguarde line before I've even had an opportunity to issue a call.

To me that says, "Your call is so unimportant to me, I won't even stick around to hear it respectfully," as well as, "I'm so sure it's mine and that I know better than you, I won't even pause to hear out your call on the action."

The effect on me, far from being influenced to give the touch to that fencer, is that I suspect such a one of, in fact, using cheap tricks to attempt to influence me, and therefore make my calls all the more conscientiously, trying to be sure to resist any said influence.

[rory]

Originally Posted by Gav

I like the Scottish way:

of course this is a joke post. However I will rep the first person to demonstrate to me the reference I am drawing on.

Chewin' the Fat.
Rep please.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by sabreur

You need to wear a little tinfoil cap--it helps your psychic waves get past the mesh of your mask and penetrate the ref's thick skull...

Or you could cover the back of the mask. I'm sure it's pretty close to a Faraday Cage.

[forethought]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

Speaking as a yet somewhat inexperienced (i.e. unrated) director, I myself find it slightly rude and offensive when, after a halt, a fencer will *instantly* whip around and strut back to his/her enguarde line before I've even had an opportunity to issue a call.

To me that says, "Your call is so unimportant to me, I won't even stick around to hear it respectfully," as well as, "I'm so sure it's mine and that I know better than you, I won't even pause to hear out your call on the action."

The effect on me, far from being influenced to give the touch to that fencer, is that I suspect such a one of, in fact, using cheap tricks to attempt to influence me, and therefore make my calls all the more conscientiously, trying to be sure to resist any said influence.

If I know or think my opponent got the touch, I may do this in the interest of time, though I won't turn my back to them.

[jBirch]

I'll give away a touch early in the match or in one of the poules if it's close. That way, the ref thinks that when it's close and I don't give the touch away, it's because the touch is probably mine.

Early in the day, I'll watch the refs likely to ref my bouts and see how they call actions. If they're sensitive to a particular grey action, then I'll make sure I "sell" the action to them when I fence.

Occassionally, if the ref blows a call, I'll jump all over them with how the call should be called, right up to getting the BC involved and taking the yellow card.

And if they're ref'fing some of my students, I'll do like Gav's "Big Man" and threaten the ref. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't.

James.

[Joe biebel]

I talk to the ref before the bout/pool privately, pointing off into the distance, smiling, talking in an animated fashion, and say, in a voice only he/she can hear, " if you want to see your dog alive again, things need to go my way." Hopefully he/she has a dog.

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by jBirch

I'll give away a touch early in the match or in one of the poules if it's close. That way, the ref thinks that when it's close and I don't give the touch away, it's because the touch is probably mine.

Early in the day, I'll watch the refs likely to ref my bouts and see how they call actions. If they're sensitive to a particular grey action, then I'll make sure I "sell" the action to them when I fence.

Occassionally, if the ref blows a call, I'll jump all over them with how the call should be called, right up to getting the BC involved and taking the yellow card.

And if they're ref'fing some of my students, I'll do like Gav's "Big Man" and threaten the ref. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't.

James.

I think that qualifies as using any means at your disposal... from shakanery to thuggery.

[Repechage]

Influencing referees? Exaggerated salutes. Glaring. Schmoozing. Hissy fits. Maniacal laughter. Acknowledging one-light touches. Sorrowful shakes of the head. Blank awestruck incomprehension. Gesturing what actually should have been called with an appalled expression. Citing the number and page of the misapplied rule. Telling the referee how to phrase it better. Resigned nods. Cherry bombs under their chairs later on. Gossiping about them to a friend of the FOC. Asking for them to be removed, not for myself but on behalf of the rest of the pool. Pointing out untied shoes. Offering them my cell phone so they can call for help. Bringing them a cup of coffee to keep them awake. Reminding them that I have refereed longer than they are alive. Reminding them that they have been refereeing longer than I am alive. When they fence themselves, telling their referee not to let them bully them.

Or: Figuring out what they do wrong and giving them the action they prefer, while the rest of my pool gnashes their teeth and wails.

[D'Art]

Originally Posted by Repechage

Influencing referees? Exaggerated salutes. Glaring. Schmoozing. Hissy fits. Maniacal laughter. Acknowledging one-light touches. Sorrowful shakes of the head. Blank awestruck incomprehension. Gesturing what actually should have been called with an appalled expression. Citing the number and page of the misapplied rule. Telling the referee how to phrase it better. Resigned nods. Cherry bombs under their chairs later on. Gossiping about them to a friend of the FOC. Asking for them to be removed, not for myself but on behalf of the rest of the pool. Pointing out untied shoes. Offering them my cell phone so they can call for help. Bringing them a cup of coffee to keep them awake. Reminding them that I have refereed longer than they are alive. Reminding them that they have been refereeing longer than I am alive. When they fence themselves, telling their referee not to let them bully them.

Are you an epeeist by any chance?

[Repechage]

Originally Posted by D'Art

Are you an epeeist by any chance?

Um . . . no.

[mrbiggs]

I don't do much.

First, I'm really polite so I don't get on their bad side early. A lot of refs are really nitpicky, so effeciently getting on the strip and helping them check your gear can't hurt, as well as making sure they see you do a clear salute.

Then, there's yelling in close touches. If we kind of come together, but I think I started a half second earlier, I'm definitely going to yell. It probably won't help, but it certainly can't hurt. And at my level, it sometimes does help.

Third is the occaisional pantomime. Probably the best is those tricky point in line touches. For those, I like to give a big yell, and keep my arm extended after the touch, as if to say "look how extended my arm is! What a point in line!" Again, it doesn't always help, but it probably won't hurt.

Then, of course, if a ref makes a wrong call, I'll ask for "clarification." As in "but didn't I parry-riposte?" It's not that I expect the ref to change their call, I'm just hoping they will look for the action more carefully next touch. I never do this with good, experienced refs. (Unless, of course, I actually do not understand the call.)

[davesaint]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

What about those of us that are lactose intolerant?

Or, as some say, Lactards?

That's why you give cash. You don't have to worry about either making your director sick or killing them due to some food allergy.


Dave

[wbowman]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

if a ref makes a wrong call, I'll ask for "clarification." As in "but didn't I parry-riposte?" It's not that I expect the ref to change their call, I'm just hoping they will look for the action more carefully next touch.

My approach is pretty much the same as Mr. Biggs' (in the increasingly rarer occasions that I fence the right-of-way weapons. Sometimes it helps to just clue the ref in to what you were trying to do (or thought you were doing), so he/she will be looking for it next time.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by davesaint

That's why you give cash. You don't have to worry about either making your director sick or killing them due to some food allergy.
Dave

You don't know where those bills have been. Microwave them first.

[Mr Epee]

Influencing a referee is the same as everything else in life.

It's not what you say; it's how you say it.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Influencing a referee is the same as everything else in life.

It's not what you say; it's how you say it.

Then, how do you generally say it?