I am wondering if anyone has given any thoughts to what would constitute an ideal small club facility (tempered with a dose of reality) - e.g., how many permanent pistes, etc. I would think something like that would work:
1. 4-6 permanent pistes
2. Warm up/footwork/class area
3. Separate men's and women's locker/bathroom
4. Office/Store/Armory (sp?)
5. Spectator/Safe non-fencer Area
6. Some place to throw the bags.
My musings came out of the thread about running a fencing club - Running a Successful (lucrative) Club. Seems to me that in order to attact fencers to a salle, there should be some basic facilities.
I have fenced in a variety of places but not one was really designed with a fencing salle in mind, so there was always something that annoyed me (too short pistes, no changing room, need to walk across pistes to exit, etc.)
If you're interested, this is a plan that I did a while back as part of a Facility Management class. When you come across something a little odd... please assume that I was bending the project to meet the course requirements.
Fencing T-shirts available at Off-The-Piste Wear **New designs** including f.net themed designs for easy recognition of fellow f.netters at tournaments!
If you're interested, this is a plan that I did a while back as part of a Facility Management class. When you come across something a little odd... please assume that I was bending the project to meet the course requirements.
Making the thing feasible is a whole other paper.
Enjoy
This is actually quite good. I was thinking that if one could get zoning and building code compliance, building a club above a strip mall (or in the basement depending on topography), may actually allow an enterprising fencer to build and fund the building of a custom club for free - the idea would be that the entire building (stores and club) would be owned by the club (or some entity), and the club would be free, since rent from the stores may cover the cost of the mortgage and some of the real estate taxes and operating costs. Now, if the club could be formed as a not-for-profit, there may be the possibility in some jurisdictions to get a tax abatement on the real estate taxes for that portion of the rent. Just something I am thinking about.
Cost of the facility for this sort of build out would be about $60 psf (maybe less, since the club premises buildout is fairly cheap given that its undivided space and there is minimal plumbing.
Additional income may be derived from renting out the facilities to third parties for dance classes or for events (although I would hate doing the latter).
If you look at the area with the strips, assuming that they are 2x14 m with 2 m outrun, you can work out a ballpark figure for the gross square footage.
I think there is at least one level of management too many in the org chart--probably two.
My ideal club would have an area with a mirror wall, for warm-ups, drilling, footwork and lessons, separate from the bouting area.
MR
Last edited by sabreur; 07-20-2006 at 10:02 AM.
Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
Having a gym on the second floor has advantages in terms of cost for low impact flooring. In the basement means building up from the concrete.
If it's a one floor building, or to save on stair use for people, it's possible to put in a fencing floor over the concrete. Duke City Fencers out in Albuquerque did this, and while I imagine it took Toby a long time, it's VERY nice to fence on, and has reels and floor cords running beneath it. Even rubber insulation between the flooroards and the supports, so the parts that can't be hollow are still very soft.
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
Assuming a piste is roughly 50', this appears to be about 150' X 110', so about 16,500 sf.
Say a site can be found to build a three floor building - basement = club, ground floor = retail, and upper floor = offices. Club could survive by rental on the retail and offices. Total sf would be 50,000 sf. Build out would be $60 psf (this would not be high end construction) - so $3,000,000. Land cost is location dependent, but say $500,000, so $3,500,000 all in.
Mortgage on 90% would give mortgage payments of $270,000 a year. Expenses for a building of this size - say another $70,000, so total $340,000.
If the lease for the two commercial floors is $10 psf for the office, and $20 for the retail , then we come up with a number of $165,000 rental for the office, and $330,000 rental for retail. Factoring in a loss factor of 15%, we get roughly $420,000 from the rental.
If you look at the area with the strips, assuming that they are 2x14 m with 2 m outrun, you can work out a ballpark figure for the gross square footage.
I think there is at least one level of management too many in the org chart--probably two.
My ideal club would have an area with a mirror wall, for warm-ups, drilling, footwork and lessons, separate from the bouting area.
MR
I don't know what the square footage would be.
And the org chart was mostly based on what is commonly used for health clubs. I agree that it's a bit long, but initially quite a few of the positions would have been filled with the same people. One person doing more than one job.
Like many projects it was mostly done to meet the class requirements, and to demonstrate that I had understood the material. It it were to be implemented I would have spent 6 months on it... instead I spent about 6 hours.
One problem with a seperate warm-up/lesson room is that a highly professional club would require someone to observe the room - for a number of reasons (several being legal)... open space can be scanned by a single person.
Additional income may be derived from renting out the facilities to third parties for dance classes or for events (although I would hate doing the latter).
But certainly if you make your club homey enough to your fencers, there's no other place they would want to get married other than club......
I am wondering if anyone has given any thoughts to what would constitute an ideal small club facility (tempered with a dose of reality) - e.g., how many permanent pistes, etc. I would think something like that would work:
1. 4-6 permanent pistes
2. Warm up/footwork/class area
3. Separate men's and women's locker/bathroom
4. Office/Store/Armory (sp?)
5. Spectator/Safe non-fencer Area
6. Some place to throw the bags.
My musings came out of the thread about running a fencing club - Running a Successful (lucrative) Club. Seems to me that in order to attact fencers to a salle, there should be some basic facilities.
I have fenced in a variety of places but not one was really designed with a fencing salle in mind, so there was always something that annoyed me (too short pistes, no changing room, need to walk across pistes to exit, etc.)
Qualifications for ideal club:
1. 10 Strips, all grounded, 8 with score and time and 2 practice strips with repeaters (one on each end of the strip).
2. Wi-Fi access.
3. Additional recreational activities for parents/siblings/fencers who aren't on strip (e.g., Shuffleboard table)
4. 42" Plasma Screen tv showing Fencing Pictures DVDs (or video for analysis).
5. High quality sound system with music playing during open fencing.
6. Wireless microphone to assist coaches teaching large classes.
7. Weights, Shims, and inside hex wrench available on every strip.
8. Air conditioning (Thanks, swordwench)
9. Two bathrooms
10. Separate mens and womens locker/changing rooms
11. Multiple practice dummies
12. Large armory/work bench
13. A Fridge and a Microwave, as well as extra paper cups/plates.
14. Couches. (as well as the standard benches and chairs)
15. Mirrors in changing room (so you don't always have to go to the bathroom if you want a mirror for contacts).
16. Extra tools easily available near club gear. (screwdrivers... etc)
17. Large, easy to read, appropriately placed clocks all over. (when was my lesson again?)
Thanks to whtouche for numbers 9-12.
Thanks to mp for numbers 13-17.
-m
Last edited by epeemike81; 07-20-2006 at 04:13 PM.
1. 10 Strips, all grounded, 8 with score and time and 2 practice strips with repeaters (one on each end of the strip).
2. Wi-Fi access.
3. Additional recreational activities for parents/siblings/fencers who aren't on strip (e.g., Shuffleboard table)
4. 42" Plasma Screen tv showing Fencing Pictures DVDs (or video for analysis).
5. High quality sound system with music playing during open fencing.
6. Wireless microphone to assist coaches teaching large classes.
7. Weights, Shims, and inside hex wrench available on every strip.
-m
Mike, you forgot one of the most essential qualifications...
Originally Posted by Mr Epee 
