what is the best club/school in the SF Bay Area?

[OriginalMe]

Hi,

I'm looking for a club/classes in the SF Bay Area. From the Bay Cup website, there are a lot available. Does anyone have any experience with these club/classes/instructors they would like to share? What is the best one for a beginner?

[jjefferies]

Hi,
I'm looking for a club/classes in the SF Bay Area. From the Bay Cup website, there are a lot available. Does anyone have any experience with these club/classes/instructors they would like to share? What is the best one for a beginner?

I don't think there is "A" best. The issue is which one fits you best and that's a different story. Why don't you try to give a few details about yourself: age, have you fenced before, if so preferred weapon, LOCATION. And especially LOCATION and how far you can travel and to a lesser degree how much can you afford.

There are clubs which cater to all three weapons and others which will do all three but one is preferred and then there are clubs which are weapon specific. There are clubs which are very clubby and are very organized toward teaching beginners while others are very competition oriented. There are university clubs and private clubs. There are clubs which meet a few times a week in a YMCA or church and clubs which have a dedicated facility and are open 6 days a week or until the coaches drop.

So, Yes the SF Bay Area has a very diverse fencing scene. Now, where do you want to fit into? And I note that you are indicating Oakland as a location. There are potentially four clubs within a short distance of you. Seven if you travel by car or BART. So a simple reply is why not visit each of those clubs and see if any of them offer you what you want?

[OriginalMe]

Good points.

I'm 35, I took a fencing class many, many years ago but otherwise have no experience so I'm looking to start at the very basics. I live in Oakland and work in Milpitas. I can travel anywhere in the Bay Area but East Bay/SF probably is closest. I can afford lessons and if I want to keep going past the basics, I can afford to pick up some equipment as well. I've heard it is best to start with foil but I'd like to try the others at some point as well.

Right now, I was thinking of doing the beginnerss class put on by Fremont Fencers because it is close to where I work and starts up very soon. After that, I was thinking of trying the classes at Halberstadt when they start up in the fall.

[OriginalMe]

One thing I forgot - in addition to any advice based on my particular situation listed above - where would you train in the SF Bay Area if cost/location were not barriers?

[epeemike81]

One thing I forgot - in addition to any advice based on my particular situation listed above - where would you train in the SF Bay Area if cost/location were not barriers?

Check out Golden Gate FC. GGFC has, among others, Michael Pederson (National Coach for Women's Foil), Paul Soter (former National Coach for Men's Epee), and Maureen Griffin (5 time Canadian world team member in WE).

And, with the addition of Tomek Amborski, they also have a legit sabre coach.

So, whatever weapon you want to fence, I'd recommend GGFC.

-m

[Phaeton]

Halberstadt....

[Zilverzmurfen]

I've heard it is best to start with foil but I'd like to try the others at some point as well.

Forget what you've heard and try the weapon/s you find the most interesting and/or that you can try out!

I guess I should also say welcome back to the sport.

[Mr Epee]

You might give this book a quick look over.

Fencer's Start-Up: A Beginner's Guide to Traditional & Sport Fencing

It is a light read, and provides an interesting commentary about the author's encounter with the sport from a beginner's perspective. He covers a number of issues that are too often overlooked when beginner's information is handed down from an instructors perspective.

It also includes a journal of his experiences - including realizing the club he started at wasn't best fit for him... happily he found a more appropriate club instead of quitting.

Enjoy...
----------------------
I don't know the author of this book, and am not getting cut from Amazon or any other retailer. I'm just trying to help.

[OriginalMe]

Thanks for the feedback.

Based on what has been posted, I'll check out GGFC and Halberstadt.

[jjefferies]

Thanks for the feedback.
Based on what has been posted, I'll check out GGFC and Halberstadt.

In NorCal we're proud of both GGFC and Halberstadt. Both have produced top fencers. But I also strongly recommend taking your time and visiting as many of the clubs as would be practical for you to attend. There are a number of gems in the NorCal division, PFC, EMFC, First Place Fencing are also potentially within your reach as you described and possibly even Las Positas and Sword Play. And for that matter so is Stanford, though perhaps I shouldn't mention the competition. The issue is where will you feel most at home and get the kind of attention you desire. But certainly Halberstadt and GGFC can provide an excellent fencing education.

P.S. Do be aware that the month of July following the Summer Nationals is quite often vacation or down time for many fencing clubs. That time sometimes extends into August. So check ahead that the club is open and ask if what you are seeing is the normal turnout.

[striker]

Hi,

I'm looking for a club/classes in the SF Bay Area. From the Bay Cup website, there are a lot available. Does anyone have any experience with these club/classes/instructors they would like to share? What is the best one for a beginner?

It looks like the history repeats itself. It was not long ago that I asked the
same question on this forum. Actually that was my first post on this
forum. Here is my 2 cents.

1) Good club , close to home or work
I know that you maybe highly motivated to get to the "best club".
However, with the price of gas, the traffic, etc. in the Bay Area, it
may be a bit tough to get out of work and get to the class on time.
So, you may want to do a test drive in the direction of the club before
you decide.

2) It pays to visit the club before you make a decision
Before you rush into any decisions, drop by the club and see the facilities.
Just look around and see if it is well organized. Do they have water
available for the fencers? Do they have enough parking ? Is the
place well organized or are they running around aimlessly trying to
hold the place together.

3) Group lessons
It is very important for the club to offer group as well as individual lessons
on a regular basis. Group lessons give you more opportunities to
learn, practice, and network with club members.

4) Fair prices
What do they charge for 30 minute individual lessons? A price of
20-30 dollars after paying the monthly club dues is very reasonable.

5) Try the club for a month or two
Some clubs will encourage you to pay a yearly club fee at a rock
bottom price. Do not go for that option initially. Try the club for a
month or two and make sure that you feel comfortable and it meets
your needs. Once you have decided that this club meets your
needs, then go for a yearly payment plan.

6) Learning, practice, competition
Since you are starting in fencing, the club should provide enough
learning opportunities for you. Make sure that the club owners care
about fencer’s education and competitive success at all levels, gender, and
age groups, and they are not just out there to find the next
“10 year old wonder”.

The club should encourage practice among fencers and have
enough strips and floor time available for fencers to practice
what they have learned after the class.

The club should also have regularly scheduled competitions among
the club members FREE OF CHARGE. This provides the fencer a valuable
opportunity to compete in a familiar yet a competitive environment.
These “FREE club tournaments” provide the fencer with valuable
lessons before Bay Cup or other competitions outside of the club.

7) List of clubs and contacts in the Bay Area
Go to this web site. Click on the "Bay Cup Administration" and
then click on "Clubs Information". You will find a comprehensive list of
clubs in the Bay Area.
http://www.thebaycup.org/oldidx.html

I hope this helps.

[Thorin]

Here's a map with bay area clubs: Bay Cup Club Map

And a cleaner list: Bay Cup Club List

[The Chaotic Wind]

Right now, I was thinking of doing the beginnerss class put on by Fremont Fencers because it is close to where I work and starts up very soon. After that, I was thinking of trying the classes at Halberstadt when they start up in the fall.

haha, i'm a member of fremont fencers. the coach is cool but unfortunately some of the students arent very dedicated. my friend is constantly trying to get me to go to halberstadt, the head coach there is actually my coach's coach.

but hey, fremont fencers needs more god fencers, and if you;re dedicated enough you can get pretty good, there's jsut not many people to practice against after a month when you've learned how to beat most of them, then you have the dedicated ones who give you a good challenge.

[eac]

but hey, fremont fencers needs more god fencers, and if you;re dedicated enough you can get pretty good, there's jsut not many people to practice against after a month when you've learned how to beat most of them, then you have the dedicated ones who give you a good challenge.

I don't mean to disparage your particular club (since I don't know anything about it), but in general it is a bad idea to try to join a weak club to make it stronger. Weak clubs are weak, generally speaking, because they have coaches who lack either the expertise or the motivation to create high level (i.e. points-holding) fencers. So if you join a weak club, even if you are a strong fencer, you are highly unlikely to make it stronger; the momentum of the club to be weak is larger than your momentum to be strong. Instead, you are likely to simply drag your own skill down to a little above the skill of the best other fencers there.

[jeff]

Joining a weak club is also bad for a strong fencer - you need to have strong people to compete against to develop or maintain ability. If all you fence are weaker individuals, your own performance will suffer.

[RITFencing]

Joining a weak club is also bad for a strong fencer - you need to have strong people to compete against to develop or maintain ability. If all you fence are weaker individuals, your own performance will suffer.

Sadly true, though if a number of strong fencers start fencing at a weak club, they have each other to fence as well as the occaisional newbie. Getting those first few to start coming down is the rough part. So what gets the first few?

[jeff]

That, I think, is the "critical mass" question. How do you get enough strong fencers to come to a club to make it a magnet destination? Thread-drift is up to our knees now: this might be a good thread to put up on its own, especially for established clubs that managed to build programs from the bare bones.

I think it's a combination of:

- very good coaching staff (maybe just one) with ambitions
- adequate facilities
- a program of training: identifying talent from raw beginners and training them up
-or-
getting even just a few strong guys and aggressively contacting all the other good ones
and inviting them in for open nights.

[edew]

I don't mean to disparage your particular club (since I don't know anything about it), but in general it is a bad idea to try to join a weak club to make it stronger. Weak clubs are weak, generally speaking, because they have coaches who lack either the expertise or the motivation to create high level (i.e. points-holding) fencers. So if you join a weak club, even if you are a strong fencer, you are highly unlikely to make it stronger; the momentum of the club to be weak is larger than your momentum to be strong. Instead, you are likely to simply drag your own skill down to a little above the skill of the best other fencers there.

FF is a weak club because the coach doesn't have the time to dedicate to building it stronger. The coach is a decent and capable one, but without a more permanent location, more bouting time, and a more comprehensive program, no club can get stronger.

[edew]

I don't agree with the claim that one can get better by having strong fencers available. Look around at all the strong clubs: Rochester Fencing Center, Nellya, NCF, and many others.

I mean, who was Felicia Zimmermann training against when she started as a 12 year old? Who did the original fencers, training under Gary Copeland, fenced against, in the middle of blitz'n nowhere, CO? The Nellya saber fencers? Who did they fence against? Was there even saber in all of Georgia when Burdan started? Same with Korfanty's group in Portland OR, long a dominant mainstay of foil and epee.

Heck one very impressive international example would be Tauberbischofsheim. They're located in the middle of bm-fk nowhere, hours away from any nearest fencing competitors, yet they trained and they worked and eventually, they took over all of Germany (and practically all of the world, except in saber) during the period from 1980-1996.

On the other hand, somewhat-established fencers going to some hot-shot club haven't always turned into super-top-notch fencers. I won't name names, but some clubs in NY have brought in a number of well established fencers, and they do well to top-32 at Div I, but that's about it. And there are some clubs like that in the SF Bay Area, too.

It really does matter who the coach is, and whether that coach has time for the additional fencer. That said, Will Brown, coach at Fremont Fencers, is a more-than-decent coach. He is a knowledgeable and capable coach. His main weakness is the lack of consistency in training his fencers. (I believe Will is a high-school teacher so he doesn't have the time or opportunity to start his own club full time.)