LP new Hi-tech Scimitar Fencing Shoes

[little_old_me]

Is Craig affiliated with LP-USA? It was my understanding that he is a LP dealer just like Amanda at Absolute is an LP dealer.

I assumed from your posts that you had some beef with Craig. If this is not the case, I apologise.

Also, are you aware that LP-USA has a phone number listed? I've called there myself on occasion. Talked to someone within five minutes. None of this silly "they didn't respond to my emails" stuff that way. Servers have errors. Emails aren't delivered. At least by calling you can make some contact. If you have tried them by phone, and still are not satisfied, maybe you should PM Alex or Barry personally. I'm sure they have more say in what LP does thank Craig. (no offense, Craig )

[brtech]

LP USA customer support is (usually/always) staffed by Bill Murphy, one of our best armorers (he was on the Atlanta Olympics armory crew, and is head tech at NACs frequently) and a really conscientious person, not to mention a really nice guy. It's always possible for pair of humans to misunderstand each other despite good intentions on both sides, but you have to work harder with Bill than with most.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by qatet

When I initially wrote, back in November, I offered to send them in, an offer that was repeated when I wrote back two weeks later, having had no response. You requested photos. I sent those, nearly three weeks ago. Since then I have heard nothing back.

While you did offer 25% off, that really barely makes a dent in the cost of an expensive item that has, as best as I can tell, a design flaw. If it's not a design flaw, but instead a faulty item, I would expect that it would be replaced. If it is a design flaw, then the same will probably happen with another pair, and even at $37 off, that's still $112 - far more than I, personally, would consider spending for shoes that will last for ten weeks.

I don't understand. Is your problem with LP-USA or Fencing.net?

I can understand being steamed with LP-USA over the quality of an LP product, but Craig's just a vendor. He'd have to send the shoe back for a replacement or refund just the same as you. If LP doesn't feel like their product's failure warrants a refund or replacement, it shouldn't be Craig's responsibility to eat the cost.

[Craig]

To be fair to Bill and the LP-USA domain, her issue is with me/Fencing.Net.

Looks like during the Holiday rush there was a batch of outbound emails that didn't get sent out and I've had to rewrite a bunch of those today.

Regardless of what caused the issue, the communications failing was mine and I'm taking steps to rectify it.

I would leave the details of the email out of the forums, but we're trying to get resolution now.

BTW - We just hired a new employee that has been handling some of the weapon builds and will be working on helping us with our customer service load as well.

Cheers,
Craig

[Craig]

Originally Posted by little_old_me

Is Craig affiliated with LP-USA? It was my understanding that he is a LP dealer just like Amanda at Absolute is an LP dealer.

I originally ran the LP-USA site and handled customer service just like Bill does today.

Eventually I decided that I wanted to have more control over the customer experience and ship items from my own warehouse rather than having everything be shipped from London, so I contracted with Leon Paul to become a vendor and launched shop.fencing.net.

Craig

[Barry Paul]

Bill will sort this out tomorrow. We have had no complaints regarding the wear zone on the Scimitar shoes since we launched them. However as we are the manufacturers and stand behind all our products. if Gatel is unhappy with our product we will happily replace it with the same model or if appropriate with the blades model plus a refund (on the grounds that these have had no complaints on the durability of the wear zone.). I will ask Bill tomorrow to deal with this tomorrow.

With regard to replies to emails some time Bill has had to ask the head office questions which due to moving factory in the spring has not been responded to as soon as we should have and I do remember he was out of office for two weeks in the summer supporting the USA wheelchair fencers at the world Championships in Turin, however now that Bill is full time and the new factory has allowed us to increase stocks most orders are shipped with in days and most emails are dealt with the same day. Barry Paul M.D Leon Paul

[Barry Paul]

In between writing my reply I see Craig has replied. I will ask Bill to talk with Craig to see if we need to become involved. Barry

[BySword]

why everybody is trying to take the responsibility? it's rather interesting seeing you guys openly discuss this. it also seems to tell us "let's post it on fencing.net if we dont get replies for our e-mails"

[little_old_me]

Originally Posted by BySword

it's rather interesting seeing you guys openly discuss this. it also seems to tell us "let's post it on fencing.net if we dont get replies for our e-mails"

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by BySword

why everybody is trying to take the responsibility?

It's how you should run a business. At least in my opinion.

You should be customer driven, and not afraid to own up to the bad stuff when it happens.

Craig

[qatet]

First and foremost - my apologies to LP-USA, who are apparently innocent bystanders in my frustrated venting. I have apparently fallen behind on my knowledge of who runs what company, and mistakenly believed that F-net was still LP-USA.

Second, Craig, thank you for your response and for the thoroughness thereof. My response is in your inbox. Thank you.

Third, LP Mothership, in every way except for the blatant failing of the Abrazone, I really do love the shoes - they're great. They're just vastly less useful when part of one wants to detach itself. I had one pair of Adidas that held up for two solid years of abuse, tearing the skin off my toes every single time. I would have been delighted if they had started to fall apart and given me an excuse to trash them, but no, they stuck with me (even if my skin didn't). Part of my frustration in the Scimitars falling apart is that they are in so many other ways a great shoe.

I would guess that part of the difficulty in taking the initiative and inventing new gear is getting it thoroughly tested, particularly for endurance. In buying the Scimitars I was willing to accept a certain amount of risk in that regard. I just didn't expect such trouble after only ten weeks! Thank you for your efforts in continuously improving fencing gear.

[fatfencer]

Admittedly I do not own this shoe, but I've seen MANY pairs of these shoes not wear in the 'Abrazone' despite seeming severe abuse.

I think you just got a pair with bad mojo or something. I think a replacement pair will last you longer.

If you fence solely on the cheese grater strips as opposed to copper cloth or gym floor your shoes will wear regardless, and rapidly too.. I would keep some tanned leather handy and use it as patches.

I'm a bit of a shoe buff. Also, and this is a silly but truthful and helpful suggestion. Cut pieces off of a blown steel belted radial tire (the sidewall) and use that shoe goo or p 6000 glue. Best yet glue the rubber on top of the tanned leather and then to the shoe. I've done this to a pair of the asymmetric hitops i bought from ELI at Nationals.

Yes you can have the pair replaced but the above are some tips to make your shoes last.

Nike has a court shoe now that is PERFECt for a low top fencing shoe, btw

FF

[Alex_Paul]

Originally Posted by qatet

Third, LP Mothership, in every way except for the blatant failing of the Abrazone, I really do love the shoes - they're great. They're just vastly less useful when part of one wants to detach itself. I had one pair of Adidas that held up for two solid years of abuse, tearing the skin off my toes every single time. I would have been delighted if they had started to fall apart and given me an excuse to trash them, but no, they stuck with me (even if my skin didn't). Part of my frustration in the Scimitars falling apart is that they are in so many other ways a great shoe.

I would guess that part of the difficulty in taking the initiative and inventing new gear is getting it thoroughly tested, particularly for endurance. In buying the Scimitars I was willing to accept a certain amount of risk in that regard. I just didn't expect such trouble after only ten weeks! Thank you for your efforts in continuously improving fencing gear.

Mothership calling. . . .

Hi there, I try to respond to stuff that Craig e mails me ASAP and in the case of yor shoes I did within 24 hours for all 3 of the e mails I sent him.

I saw the photos you sent and I have to say that there is certainly some slightly odd wear on them that made me reticent to leap to the conclusion of a faulty shoe and offer a free replacement. If you look at the pic at http://www.leonpaulnews.com/uploads/abrazone.jpg I will explain why. The two areas circled in red between where the split occured are worn and the area around that remains undamaged. The area where abrazone is written is not really meant to be part of the protective area and it is much thinner that the rest of the 3D honeycomb section. This is because most people don't drag that part of their foot when they lunge as it is it is very far around your foot.
I am not saying the shoes are perfect however (and please don't take this the wrong way) I think you must be doing something a bit unusual, either with drag or the way you bend your foot and for whatever reason this has caused the split. We genuinely have never seen this happen to a scimitar before and I assure you that they have been thoroughly tested by a range of athletes in full time training.

Ten weeks is not that long but at the same time it is not far off 3 months which is nearly half a season. I did not know the circumstances of how much use they had recieved and what type of surface they had been used on.

IIRC in my response to Craig I said that I thought the wear had triggered the split and that the unusual wear point might mean that the the same would happen to another pair. I think I suggested that the blades may be a better option as the abrazone is solid and therfore would not split like this.

Possibly in retrospect the level of discount I suggested was a bit stingy. Sorry!

Have you got to a satisfactory resolution with Craig yet?

Alex Paul (aka mothership)

[qatet]

Alex, thank you for your response.

I actually just checked out the shoes, and that strange wear pattern you see is from the flap of honeycomb Abrazone rubbing against the flat Abrazone transition area, so I'm pretty sure that it's a symptom of the rip, not a cause.

I'll send the shoes back, via Craig. Would it also be useful to get a video clip of how the shoe gets used when I fence in them? I'm pretty sure I could arrange that.

[clonardo]

Dear Mothership,
Are there any plans to bring out a high-top version? I think I speak on behalf of many other crippled fencers when I say that I'd love to wear your shoes, but there's just not enough of my ankle left to allow me to do so. I've tried wrapping and bracing with low-top shoes, but it's just not as good as a true high-top.

Thanks!

--Chris and the Stony Brook University Fightin' Cripples

[RebelFencer]

Man, LP is such a M(S)ILF.

[Barry Paul]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Man, LP is such a M(S)ILF.

Not sure what this means but i will presume its good.

As for Hi-tops we will at some time make both a narrower womens and a hi-top shoe. But not untill earliest end of 2007. One problem is presently we have fairly large stocks of shoes as they are lasting so long. So by promoting blades shoe you wish might come true sooner.

[clonardo]

any chance we might see asymmetric Leon Paul shoes, or does Adidas own the rights to the entire concept?

If the hi-tops ever come to fruition, a 90 degree angle between the foot and ankle is more than sufficient. I want to smack whatever Adidas employee thought that putting an acute bend in the foot of the hi-top Adistar was a good idea. Everything about the Adidas shoes makes them seem completely over-engineered.

Comfort, simplicity, and durability. That's all I want out of shoes. Not shiny side panels and "features" like "adiPrene" and the "Torsion System." Alas, there are so few choices for high-tops, and the synthetic cartilage gel for ankles is still in clinical trials.

[Alex_Paul]

Originally Posted by qatet

Alex, thank you for your response.

I actually just checked out the shoes, and that strange wear pattern you see is from the flap of honeycomb Abrazone rubbing against the flat Abrazone transition area, so I'm pretty sure that it's a symptom of the rip, not a cause.

I'll send the shoes back, via Craig. Would it also be useful to get a video clip of how the shoe gets used when I fence in them? I'm pretty sure I could arrange that.

I don't think a video will help to be honest.

Not sure what this means but i will presume its good.

Google milf if you care

[Dax]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

I don't think a video will help to be honest.


Google milf if you care

HAHAHA! That made my day.

I love my mix of LP shoes(I wear a scimitar on my back foot, blade on front foot). I wear one of each shoe because the blade shoe for my back foot wore out after a good year of use, but the front foot is in good condition(and is really comfortable). The back foot for me takes the most wear and the scimitar is holding up nicely. I am going to start wearing both scimitars soon, though, because I am tired of people asking me why I wear two different shoes.

Thanks for the great shoe!

P.S. I am the huge guy who helped you set up some stuff at our summer nationals in Atlanta.

*EDIT*
Actually, upon putting on the right shoe I remembered why I was not wearing it in the first place. When I put it on it cuts into my toe and causes pain. Hence, I only wore the shoe once or twice. There is, what I think is a defect in the shoe, that causes the problem. Where the toung is sewed near the toe of the shoe there is a sharp ridge on the right foot. The same spot is completely smooth on the left, which leads me to believe that the problem is a defect. Any suggestions? Or should I just keep wearing the blade on the right foot?