Rutgers Fencing will be gone in a year.

[daveappr]

I agree with alumni solicitations idea, I know i'd be willing to donate a modest fee each year to help the program. I just can't get past the absurdity of the state with perhaps the largest amount of high school varsity fencing programs just dropping the sport from the state university. Thanks for the links to the local newspaper stories.

[edew]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Fencing teams also don't generate the same kind of revenue as those other sports.

Really, it's just the football and basketball programs that generate revenue. None of the others generate much revenue. And those others include: gymnastics, swimming, volleyball, tennis, golf, fencing, squash, track and field, etc.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Jorgensen

For instance, fencing doesn't need such a large equipment budget. Also, we don't need to go to a NAC every year.

*melts in jealousy*

And here I am, just trying to make sure that we get to USACFCs every year.....

Is sending fencers to a NAC standard for NCAA fencing programs??? Fencing will be the next NCAA program that Smith funds........ during the next economic boom.................

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Is sending fencers to a NAC standard for NCAA fencing programs???

Depends on the program. It's not standard, but it's also not uncommon.

[keropie]

UNC doesn't send anyone to any NACs, JOs, etc. Any trip like that is paid for by the athlete in question. Mind you, we also tend to carry a larger team than some schools (~60 athletes / year, men and women combined).

[sabreman]

I would start organizing ASAP. Since this is not Title IV based I think you might have a chance if you can reduce the budget via donations, scholarship reductions (maybe even elimination like UNC) , equipment, travel, coaching, ect. Hope you can pull it off some how. I know your pain.

[Jorgensen]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

*melts in jealousy*

And here I am, just trying to make sure that we get to USACFCs every year.....

Is sending fencers to a NAC standard for NCAA fencing programs??? Fencing will be the next NCAA program that Smith funds........ during the next economic boom.................

A lot of schools send their team to a NAC. Example, Columbia University sends their entire men's and women's teams, and a lot of the fencers tend to do more than one event (junior/ div 1). the point being made about not sending rutgers' fencers to a NAC is to reduce our budget.

I have a feeling that they saw the fencing budget as one lump sum. They had no idea what that budget was made up of, so rather than seeing what they could reduce, they went for a whole cut.

[Zasha]

Originally Posted by Schibilia

Thoughts anyone?

red hot steaming mad doesn't even begin to cover it. was i going to fence for rutgers, no. but i have friends who were planning it.
the amount of money saved is less than half of the head football coach's salary.
this is rutgers' way of whining about the cuts, and they're getting exactly what they want for what they are doing: attention.

[keropie]

Originally Posted by Zasha

red hot steaming mad doesn't even begin to cover it. was i going to fence for rutgers, no. but i have friends who were planning it.
the amount of money saved is less than half of the head football coach's salary.
this is rutgers' way of whining about the cuts, and they're getting exactly what they want for what they are doing: attention.

You simply CAN'T cut football or basketball from most schools. That's where the athletics money comes in. This also means you really can't cut money from the coaches of those sports, or your team declines (generally speaking), alumnai contributions decline, etc.

Don't get me wrong: this sucks. I hope Rutgers successfully fights it and keeps/reinstates the team ASAP. But complaining about football/basketball is not going to get it done, no matter how bad those teams are.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by sabreman

Since this is not Title IV based

I think you mean Title IX.

Whether or not this was initiated by Title IX issues, they certainly played a part in the selection of WHICH sports to cut (it wasn't coincidental that 5 of 6 sports were men's (the exception, of course, being women's fencing)).

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...C&SECTION=HOME

According to the article, Big East participation was also an issue (4 of the 6 cut programs -- including both fencing teams -- do not participate in the Big East (which doesn't sponsor a championships in fencing (conference schools with varsity fencing: Notre Dame, St John's, Rutger's)).

-B

[epeelion]

Considering the already low salary for fencing coaches, the relatively low amount of money given for scholarships, the scarcity (or at the very least, low amount) of equipment bought (not everyone gets the best stuff, as Cindy has explained to me), and the lack of a fencing room, I find it difficult to believe that fencing is really a ignificant enough part of the Rugers budget to even be worth cutting. And considering the number of new talented fencers coming, and the consistent success the program has had in keeping itself in the top ten in the country, there is absolutely no question that the program should stay. One could eliminate some of the issued equipment and/or the NAC. The alumni could halp out more financially. But there are already so few teams competing out there (relative to other more popular sports, I mean), that it would be stupid and detrimental to the sport to eliminate a program that actually contributes. Fencers have to stick together. We compete in enough of an underground sport already, and we can't afford to give in when the bigger sports start pushing and shoving. It happens already at Columbia, where the bigger (but weakest) sports, like football, get brand new underarmour, uniforms, assistant coaches, etc., and the fencers have to push hard for years to get a few new fencing strips. Everybody do what you can to help your fellow "players" out here. Rutgers fencing deserves better than this.

[sabreman]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

I think you mean Title IX.

Whether or not this was initiated by Title IX issues, they certainly played a part in the selection of WHICH sports to cut (it wasn't coincidental that 5 of 6 sports were men's (the exception, of course, being women's fencing)).

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...C&SECTION=HOME

According to the article, Big East participation was also an issue (4 of the 6 cut programs -- including both fencing teams -- do not participate in the Big East (which doesn't sponsor a championships in fencing (conference schools with varsity fencing: Notre Dame, St John's, Rutger's)).

-B

Yes I meant IX.

Good point about the Big East. Fencing was an official ACC conference sport but was dropped in 1980. Once that happened along with Title IX most of the fencing teams (some were just men's only like UMD) were dropped. I believe this was also the case with the Big Ten (happened about the same time).

[chefencer]

One more tangential article:
Someday, here's what it will be: Football, basketball, women's sports to balance Title IX scholarships and a bunch of club teams that raise money with candy sales to take vans to neighboring schools for competition.

-My Condolences...

[kilo_foxtrot]

Originally Posted by chefencer

One more tangential article:
Someday, here's what it will be: Football, basketball, women's sports to balance Title IX scholarships and a bunch of club teams that raise money with candy sales to take vans to neighboring schools for competition.

-My Condolences...

It is very sad, but I think the author of that article is spot-on. I really do.

How depressing.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by campb1pr

And if they don't find a coach, I have a feeling (gut only) that JMU will opt out too.

I find this very unlikely. opting out of a women's only varsity sport would cause title IX issues. I think WF at JMU is safe from cuts due to the lack of a varsity men's equivalent.

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by campb1pr

Just think - until approximately 25 years ago - the Big 10 had a fencing championship. And I think that other power conferences did too. With the increased media coverage of all college sports (ESPN, CSTV, etc.) imagine if we still had conference championships in some of the BCS conferences. You'd see collegiate fencing on TV!

No you wouldn't. They occasionally show a bout or two from NCAA championships, but that's it. If they don't show NCAA Nationals on tv, what makes you think they'd show a conference tourney?

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Express Times Article

Rutgers' Board of Governors voted Friday to phase out six sports teams after the 2006-2007 season: men and women's fencing, men's crew (heavyweight and lightweight), men's tennis and men's swimming.

so, speaking of title IX, was rutgers not in compliance with Title IX before this decision? If they were in compliance before the decision, I don't think that they are after. let's look at the ledger:
Womens' teams cut:
Fencing

Mens' teams cut
Fencing
Heavyweight Crew
Lightweight Crew
Tennis
Swimming.

-m

[Schibilia]

I think a lot of you would be surprised to know how much money is donated to the fencing program each year. I have been privvy to a lot of data as captain. I have seen the data sheets for alumni donations when helping to send them gifts. Some people donate amounts in the $xx,000 range...EVERY YEAR. The problem is that fencing does not see the full amount of this money. It gets put into a pool to be invested. That makes sense, we aren't going to use all that money in one season. But from the way I understand it, it then gets taken from that pool and dispersed across many other sports every year. I think that a lot of alumni would be outraged to know that and they would do well by making sure that this is the case. If they don't want their money touching the other sports, they should let the business office know.

Someone said that we could cut coaching expenses. We only have one, so it would be kind of hard I to cut his salary I think.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

No you wouldn't. They occasionally show a bout or two from NCAA championships, but that's it. If they don't show NCAA Nationals on tv, what makes you think they'd show a conference tourney?

-m

The Big 10 has created their own TV channel, and the Big XII is considering following suit. If the Big East had a similar venture, they'd probably be desparate for content from time to time, and fencing could be a suitable content.

[sabreman]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

I find this very unlikely. opting out of a women's only varsity sport would cause title IX issues. I think WF at JMU is safe from cuts due to the lack of a varsity men's equivalent.

-m

No they just find a new women's only sport to replace it.