Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Lagoda · 07-09-2006, 08:16 PM

I understand what FIE is but why do so many fencers her in the US spend the extra money on FIE gear when there is less expensive stuff that will cover all there needs for domestic competitions. Face it - MOST will never travel internationally to fence.

Is an FIE mask really any better than a high quality 350 mask by the same manufacturer such as LP, Negrini, Uhlmann... ? Or does an FIE mask really feel as though its better quality?

Also I posted in the wrong section earlier but got no response - Anyone had the opportunity to check out the Fencing With Fun gear. I have my eye on one of their masks here in the fencing.net store.

RITFencing · 07-09-2006, 08:18 PM

Becase A) FIE gear is generally higher quality and more comfortable to wear and B) We like our bodies. At the cherry blossom open this year a woman took an epee in the thigh, and I'll bet her knickers were not FIE. Just because the country is lax on safety requirements doesn't mean we have to risk our bodies.

Peach · 07-09-2006, 08:19 PM

Well, I do need them for international competition, but even if I didn't I would prefer FIE gear because I am fond of safety. Yes, it's expensive, but I tend to be moving full tilt toward someone who is moving toward me and trying to hit me with a steel stick. I do have a pair of lightweight nylon stretch fencing trousers I wear in practice, and boy does it sting when someone makes a wild cut to the leg.

RITFencing · 07-09-2006, 08:22 PM

And honestly, FIE gear is generally more enjoyable to use. My FIE mask is easily the most comfortable i've ever owned, same deal with my knickers and jacket. FIE blades have a better balance and feel about them.

Finally, FIE gear tends to last longer. You can shell out 300 for a jacket but really expect it to perform for years.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 07-09-2006, 08:39 PM

In that sense, a $300 jacket is better than a woman.

You can spend $300 on a woman and get no performance what-so-evah.

mrbiggs · 07-09-2006, 08:40 PM

1. Safety
2. Lifetime
3. Comfort
4. Fit (and look)

That's why non-internationally competitive fencers get FIE equipment, pretty much in that order. Or, that's why I'm starting to get it, at least.

RITFencing · 07-09-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

In that sense, a $300 jacket is better than a woman.

You can spend $300 on a woman and get no performance what-so-evah.

The performance there has less to do with the money and more to do with the person... and your average woman seems not to like feeling as though she's been paid for. Just a friendly tip for your future.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 07-09-2006, 08:47 PM

For the record, RIT is right, FIE gear tends to last longer.

erooMynohtnA · 07-09-2006, 11:38 PM

While I prefer non-FIE uniforms and non-FIE blades becase both are generally lighter, I have an FIE mask because it really is that much stronger, and it really is that much more comfortable.

Hollywood Troy · 07-09-2006, 11:43 PM

I looked around and after seeing everything, I thought FIE really wasn't that much more expensive. The not even 350N stuff can't really be counted on for anything.

RITFencing · 07-09-2006, 11:44 PM

Also: Not all non-FIE gear is 350N. If you're not going to buy FIE stuff, please at least get 350 stuff; it will still protect you. There is NO minimum rating for gear in american tournaments, and some companies (sport 7, I'm looking at you) capitalize on this. For the record, sport 7 doesn't sell direct to fencers, but several companies rebrand their equipment.

EDIT: Troy, looks like you beat me to the punch. Have some rep.

epeeisky · 07-10-2006, 10:59 AM

Try fencing epee and see how long a non-FIE mask will be safe to use. The FIE gear is vastly stronger. My LP FIE mask has not gotten any dents since I have had the mask. Other masks that I had prior to it looked like the moon after a couple months of use, and were simply not safe to use for epee.

cmedalis · 07-10-2006, 12:49 PM

Just my $0.02...

I have an Uhlmann FIE uniform that is by all accounts ancient (vintage 1997/98), and it's still in great shape. There's a bit of pilling on the sleves from my lame' rubbing, and on the breeches from the velcro during storage, but otherwise it's still good as new (even the elastics on the legs are still stretchy!)

Nearly 10 years of use, and it's still serving me well, totally worth the investment just for longevity IMHO.

Now I did get a Leon Paul FIE mask (comfort fit) and plastron (budget FIE).

I like the heavier plastron, even though it's HOT, I like the extra protection against bruising (collected 16 at SN!!

) Plus, I know a few people who've had jacket-seams tear and been saved (literally) by their underarm protectors, so I totally think this is one of the items you need to get FIE.

The mask is totally worth it, it's taking plenty of hits direct to the mask and shows only minor wear on the outer enamel, and again, no mesh deformation, no tears in the bib material, and it takes a beating.

A friend of mine has his non-FIE mask (barely one year old) failed at the armorer table at Summer Nationals when the punch popped thru a repaired dent directly where his eye would have been! Better to fail on table than on strip! He immediately went and bought an FIE mask, as the mesh is required to be a higher quality.

HDG · 07-10-2006, 02:48 PM

Isn't there only 1 standard for mask mesh? Isn't the difference b/w an FIE mask and a non-FIE in the strength of the bib?

RITFencing · 07-10-2006, 02:54 PM

Yes but if they don't make the bib to standard, then they're probably going to cheap out on the mesh, too. If they do make the bib to standard, they're more liekly to make the rest durable.

Purple Fencer · 07-10-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDG

Isn't there only 1 standard for mask mesh? Isn't the difference b/w an FIE mask and a non-FIE in the strength of the bib?

The bib is part of it...

An FIE bib must be rates at 1600N
The mesh....non-FIE masks only have to withstand a 12kg punch....but even though that;s as high as the actual event test goes, the mesh on an FIE mask must withstand 25kg.

Those are the two primary differances.

oiuyt · 07-10-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmedalis

I have an Uhlmann FIE uniform that is by all accounts ancient (vintage 1997/98), and it's still in great shape.

Ditto.

My first set of whites lasted 3 years. And by the end of that time they were definitely at the end-of-useful-life stage.

At that point I had graduated college, and was still fencing, so expected to continue for the forseeable future. Got a set of Uhlmann FIE. That was December 1998. I'm still using those whites and don't have any need to replace them, 8 years later.

Even if FIE uniforms weren't safer (more comfortable, etc., etc.), just from a pure cost standpoint they're worth getting for anyone who expects to stay in the sport for a long period of time. Ditto FIE blades.

-B

Frank Pratt · 07-10-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Ditto.

My first set of whites lasted 3 years. And by the end of that time they were definitely at the end-of-useful-life stage.

At that point I had graduated college, and was still fencing, so expected to continue for the forseeable future. Got a set of Uhlmann FIE. That was December 1998. I'm still using those whites and don't have any need to replace them, 8 years later.

Even if FIE uniforms weren't safer (more comfortable, etc., etc.), just from a pure cost standpoint they're worth getting for anyone who expects to stay in the sport for a long period of time. Ditto FIE blades.

-B

My jacket and knickers are both 1996 Ulhmann FIE models, and they're still in great shape.

My AllStar FIE mask is also 10 years old, and it still passes the 12k punch test with no hint of pending failure. I finally decided to replace it after trying on (and falling in love with) Leon Paul's FIE Comfort Plus, but I still have the utmost confidance in the old AllStar, which will still be used as a loaner for beginners and as a backup. I strongly advise people to buy FIE masks, simply because they generally have better quality control. I've heard of non-FIE masks failing the punch test just minutes after the fencer bought the mask from a vendor at a tournament! I am unwilling to risk my life or eyesight to a mask like this.

DHCJr · 07-10-2006, 06:17 PM

If you think all mesh is the same. With certain non-FIE mask JL especially I just use my thumb to push out dents. Also I can move the mesh around on the some of their mesh.

This next happened a few years ago and I have been told their quality control is better. I failed 3 JL masks (1 FIE) at one tournament that were all new or 1 or 2 competitions without even putting a punch to it. How these got passed I will never know. One even had a NAC stamp.

The FIE had the weave of one of the wires stop about 2 inches from the top. One had the weave stop for about an inch. One was missing a rivet.

Peach · 07-10-2006, 07:49 PM

All you people whose uniforms last forever must not wash them often (sigh). Between the wretched elastic going on suspenders and knees, the velcro peeling, and the general degradation of the fabric, mine last oh, maybe five years, but after the first two they look ooogly.

My FIE sabre masks tend to last a good year of competition and then another year of practice.