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manuel hiraldo · 07-07-2006, 01:23 PM

To re-wire my foils, I've been using Loctite/Crazy Glue or similar (I think that they are based on cyanocrylate) for long time, with good results.
Lately, I find that the wire comes out easily without using remover (acetone) or while I'm fencing. I changed brands of this glue with same results. Then, I thought that it was on the new blades, that may be they have oil to protect them from rust.
I washed the blades with solvent before installing the wire and had same problem. At the club, blades BF bought from a known distributor had similar situation.
Now, I'm evaluating in going back to the old glues, but before I'd like to know if anybody is having this problem as well.

M.H.

Purple Fencer · 07-07-2006, 02:13 PM

How are you preparing the blade for wiring? poor preparation is the biggest reason wires pop.

You may soak the blade in acetone overnight....but you STILL need to get rid of the residue (i find a Dremel with a diamond cutting wheel works REAL nice)...you want nice, bright, shiny metal in that groove. If you don't the glue will bond with the residue and NOT the metal.

CA glues have one major flaw in our usage...when they get dry, they get brittle, and when they fracture, the wire pops...consider finding a more rubbery CA glue (I use them myself, but I'm not going into the office today, so I can't tell you the brand name).

I gotta head out to a performance I'm in tonight...anyone else have answers here??

CvilleFencer · 07-07-2006, 02:50 PM

I have heard rave reviews on Fletch Tight (for arrows) from several people. I agree with Purple however. With proper prep you won't have many problems. I also use a CA accelerator to help the glue expand and bond with the metal. For epees, LP makes a widget that helps keep the wire nice and snug.

manuel hiraldo · 07-07-2006, 03:32 PM

Dear P. Fencer:
Thank you for your answer. I pay attention at the moment of cleaning the blade. After running an utility knife inside the groove, I use a metal brush, the kind used for welding. It is the size of a toothbrush.
Sometime ago, I used a plumbing gas torch to clean the blades. With a little of high temperature, the glue burns and the wire goes out just pulling it out. The residue goes out easily.
But then, I had concerns of changing the hardness of the steel, although using a low temperature if we consider the levels used to change the structure on steel. Any experience with it?

Joe biebel · 07-07-2006, 06:08 PM

If you are using "Colored" blades, the color coating can interfere badly with "superglue" and perhaps other glues as well. Since I started using a "Dremel" tool and a diamond disk to remove the colored coating inside the blade groove, zero problems.

manuel hiraldo · 07-07-2006, 06:33 PM

Hi Joe!
I think that the blue blades are the problem. Now that you mentioned it, I think that we started to have the problem since we ordered these colored blades.
Thank you.

Manuel

Purple Fencer · 07-08-2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manuel hiraldo

Hi Joe!
I think that the blue blades are the problem. Now that you mentioned it, I think that we started to have the problem since we ordered these colored blades.
Thank you.

Manuel

I'd forgotton about the coating when i answered this morning (just got home from the performance...we freakin' ROCKED....and i didn;t chow my solo!)

Joe's right about the coating...when i get new blades from StM, i always chamfer the tip and grind out the groove before putting the blades in the storage tube....quite a bit of work on a large order, but a huge time saver if I have to wire a blade at an event.

as for using a torch....no experience with it...fire and I don't mix too well!

fatfencer · 07-09-2006, 02:45 AM

Blades are soaked in acetone and then lit with a lighter then wiped with a rag

Its not hot enough to fool with the temper and it turns the oils into an easily wiped-off soot.

It takes 15 drops of the regular super glue in the yellow bottles you can find at any Walmart.
Works every time folks. No dremel, no muss, no fuss.

Purple Fencer · 07-09-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatfencer

It takes 15 drops of the regular super glue in the yellow bottles you can find at any Walmart.

3 drops if you're Dan DeChaine....watched him do it last year...amazing...

I hsve doubts about burning the acetone residue off...I work ina VERY confined space...

Mergs · 07-10-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

3 drops if you're Dan DeChaine....watched him do it last year...amazing...

I hsve doubts about burning the acetone residue off...I work ina VERY confined space...

Which is why I'm amazed at why you grind out your wires! Or have the fumes finally fried your brain so that it doesn't matter any more?

Purple Fencer · 07-10-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergs

Which is why I'm amazed at why you grind out your wires! Or have the fumes finally fried your brain so that it doesn't matter any more?

That's why I wear a good respirator when i grind out a wire...i don't like to breathe the fumes...

I usually don't grind out the wire itself unless it's at a tournament, 'cause I don't bring the acetone pipe to tourneys.

rac · 07-10-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I have heard rave reviews on Fletch Tight (for arrows) from several people. I agree with Purple however. With proper prep you won't have many problems. I also use a CA accelerator to help the glue expand and bond with the metal. For epees, LP makes a widget that helps keep the wire nice and snug.

I have to second the plug for Fletch Tight. The tip alone is worth the price. Works wonderfully and easily. Closes tight and you can open it again in a month or two and it will work. No clogs. Great stuff.

You might also try using the Super Glue to "tack" in the wire first. For a blade which has been curved thru use it seems to help a lot.

RAC

mrbiggs · 07-10-2006, 11:48 PM

Make sure that you're using the right amount of bend when you wire the blades. I used to have lots of problems with wire popping because I wasn't bending the blades enough.

WhipLash · 07-11-2006, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Make sure that you're using the right amount of bend when you wire the blades. I used to have lots of problems with wire popping because I wasn't bending the blades enough.

Shouldn't bending the blade too much cause popping?

Bending the blade too little causes breaks right?

Purple Fencer · 07-11-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipLash

Shouldn't bending the blade too much cause popping?

Bending the blade too little causes breaks right?

That's kind of the art of armory....finding the right bend.

Too little (or none at all) and the wire may snap when the blade bends because it's already tight.

Too much and if it pops, you mayu not be able to get it back in the groove.

What works for me is to position the end of my bending jig so the back end is even with the shoulder of the blade (where the tang starts)....this is on a French length tang.

I need to see where it's placed on a pistol tang....which varies depending on the grip being used and if it's an inside or outside hex pommel nut.

remise · 07-11-2006, 12:09 PM

If you want a lot less time spent on cleanup in between rewires, use plumbers glue. It cures in 24 hours, is VERY flexible, VERY strong, (it would have to be), and when rewire time comes, you simply pull on the wire and the entire mess tugs right out of the groove.

Simply run an exacto knife down the blade to rough up the metal and presto....you're ready to rewire again.

HDG · 07-12-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remise

If you want a lot less time spent on cleanup in between rewires, use plumbers glue. It cures in 24 hours, is VERY flexible, VERY strong, (it would have to be), and when rewire time comes, you simply pull on the wire and the entire mess tugs right out of the groove.

How is it to work with? Liquid? Goo?

remise · 07-12-2006, 12:53 PM

I would describe it in the 'goo' range. When I apply it (either foil or epee), I use a syringe from a pet store for feeding kittens. The nozzle is too big on the original tube. For epees, simply allow 24 hours drying time. For foil, if any glue gets outside the groove, all you do is wait 5 minutes, then take a paper towel and wipe the blade with it. Any glue outside the groove will 'ball up' and roll off. Then allow the foil to cure for 24 hours.

We have a kid at our club we call the 'Terminator'. If he couldn't pop the wire, no one could. However, I think the cleanup is what makes the glue worthwhile.

HDG · 07-12-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remise

I would describe it in the 'goo' range. When I apply it (either foil or epee), I use a syringe from a pet store for feeding kittens. The nozzle is too big on the original tube. For epees, simply allow 24 hours drying time. For foil, if any glue gets outside the groove, all you do is wait 5 minutes, then take a paper towel and wipe the blade with it. Any glue outside the groove will 'ball up' and roll off. Then allow the foil to cure for 24 hours.

Is this stuff basically what you have in mind?

Purple Fencer · 07-12-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remise

I would describe it in the 'goo' range. When I apply it (either foil or epee), I use a syringe from a pet store for feeding kittens. The nozzle is too big on the original tube. For epees, simply allow 24 hours drying time. For foil, if any glue gets outside the groove, all you do is wait 5 minutes, then take a paper towel and wipe the blade with it. Any glue outside the groove will 'ball up' and roll off. Then allow the foil to cure for 24 hours.

We have a kid at our club we call the 'Terminator'. If he couldn't pop the wire, no one could. However, I think the cleanup is what makes the glue worthwhile.

Hmmmm....I may give that a try when I'm wiring blades for inventory...at an event, tho,I GOTTA go superglue