Glue for foil

[remise]

That is EXACTLY the stuff. Not even our "Terminator" could pop a wire with that.

What is nice about it, it that it is "kid friendly". A child willing to learn how to rewire can slather the stuff in, wipe off the residue, let it dry, and when it is time to rewire, just pull it out and take a screwdriver and run it down the blade.

[WhipLash]

plumbers glue? the local hardware store assistant gave me a blank face. could you provide a typical brand?

[HDG]

Originally Posted by WhipLash

plumbers glue? the local hardware store assistant gave me a blank face. could you provide a typical brand?

See the link in my post above.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by WhipLash

Shouldn't bending the blade too much cause popping?

Bending the blade too little causes breaks right?

Surprisingly, no!

When the wires started popping, I bent the blade less and less, hoping to aleiviate the problem. Then someone on this forum suggested bending it more, and I don't think I've had a single incident since.

(Except the time I ran out of super glue, but that's another story.)

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by Mergs

Which is why I'm amazed at why you grind out your wires! Or have the fumes finally fried your brain so that it doesn't matter any more?

This reminds me of a small armoring clinic I gave recently. I spent the first half hour giving cautions about all of the different ways I knew of (guess how I knew) to hurt yourself while armoring. Several people no longer wanted to continue.

Whether you grind, or use chemicals, or fire to remove old wires etc., you definately need to have really good air handling and safety protocols. There really is the potential for grave injury with the things (tools, chemicals, etc.) that we use. My dad used to say "common sense is not quite as common as you might think". I think any book or treatise on armoring should contain first and formost warnings and a whole lot of safety tips.

I have not been contributing to the armoring section very long, do we have a thread, perhaps one that can be kept as a "sticky" that gives safety advice for armoring. It could be really popular. We could all give our, or better yet, other people's screwups and the repercussions, ending each story with a "you shoulda done it like this".

[remise]

I have traveled quite a bit in my day, and was amazed at how the armorer's bench was either in the open, or in a room heavily used for other purposes (storage, clothing, lockers) by young fencers. Many of these fencers would walk right next to the armorer's table and watch while a dremel was in use.

The medical catastrophes (as well as the legal ones) of being unprotected near a dremel in use could be devastating to a club, yet - as Joe pointed out, the safety and legal issues are generally ignored.

[brtech]

This is why I recommend the hot air gun technique to get the wire out. It's much less dangerous than any other method I know. You DO need to use it in a well ventilated area, and a face mask is recommended, but the gun blows the air away from you, and the whole process releases much less bad stuff.

Brian

[Warrior Princess]

Don't use crazy glue or super glue. They don't have the right consistency, and will be really hard to get out. I've never tryed FletchTight (sp?), but I use CementIt. That's what they sell at my club, and it works really well, is reletivly easy to clean out when you're done, won't clog, and won't dry up in a month or two. It does dry (on the blade) in like a hour or two which is pretty good, considering.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Warrior Princess

Don't use crazy glue or super glue. They don't have the right consistency, and will be really hard to get out.

Nah, you can just use acetone.

Super glue dries fairly well in like 5 minutes, and it's good to go in 30, in my experience.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by Warrior Princess

Don't use crazy glue or super glue. They don't have the right consistency, and will be really hard to get out. I've never tryed FletchTight (sp?), but I use CementIt. That's what they sell at my club, and it works really well, is reletivly easy to clean out when you're done, won't clog, and won't dry up in a month or two. It does dry (on the blade) in like a hour or two which is pretty good, considering.

For foils, if you are using barrels that can be damaged during fencing, (that would be all the barrels I know of except the Leon Paul Gt) I would not recommend superglue as it is difficult to get out and you will normally be rewiring (especially FIE blades) several times in their lifetime. Other glues, such as "warrior princess" describes, might be better. Superglue is wonderful for holding the wire in. It is practically permanent. The last eight foils I wired with LP points, have been used a great deal without a single repair. All the blades are FIE, the barrels are cemented onto the blades with "locktite", and the first symptom they exhibit is the blade snapping. Not a single rewire for over 6 months of constant fencing.

If you use good components, and really know how to use superglue, it is permanent (until the blade breaks) for all intents and purposes. This is a good thing if you are not wrecking barrels, wires, etc. forcing the removal and rewiring tedium.

Use crazy glue, use superglue

[Warrior Princess]

To each his or her own I guess.

[little_old_me]

I've always been impressed by Zap CA (pink bottle, I think SwordMasters sells it). It's like water it's so thin. Like 5 drops will glue an Epee perfectly. (I know this is foil we're talking, so it may take even less for you guys) It dries in about 5 minutes and is good to fence with in about 30-40.

[wbowman]

I still swear by Plio-Bond -- although I know armorers don't like it because it's hard to clean out if you're doing a re-wire. But it's flexible, holds tight, and is not too watery to work with easily. I tried some of the Zap CA stuff, and it got away from me -- had to soak the tip in acetone to get the glue out. Dan Dechaine later explained to me how HE uses it (too much detail to describe here), and I might try it again sometime with those instructions. In the meantime, though, Plio-Bond is the way to go -- if only because I'm used to working with it. The Plumbers' Goop sounds promising, though.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by wbowman

I still swear by Plio-Bond -- although I know armorers don't like it because it's hard to clean out if you're doing a re-wire. But it's flexible, holds tight, and is not too watery to work with easily. I tried some of the Zap CA stuff, and it got away from me -- had to soak the tip in acetone to get the glue out. Dan Dechaine later explained to me how HE uses it (too much detail to describe here), and I might try it again sometime with those instructions. In the meantime, though, Plio-Bond is the way to go -- if only because I'm used to working with it. The Plumbers' Goop sounds promising, though.

AHHHH!!! You said the "P" word!

Hopefully Dan will not read this thread....you might give him a heart attack!

I've watched Dan rewire a blade with only THREE drops of the really watery superglue...amazing.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by wbowman

Dan Dechaine later explained to me how HE uses it (too much detail to describe here)

Dan is quite adept, as is Ted Li, at getting a good glue job from a very little amount of super glue. Everyone has a different technique. You can try my "teaching" technique, it's pretty easy to learn. I actually do my own slightly different, but this one is easy to teach

Set up the blade with the barrel and the wire pull the wire tight, wrap it around the end of the tang and put on the bending jig. Make sure the wire is in the groove all the way down.

Use a fast thin CA. I really like the pink Zap-CA. Buy the smallest bottles unless you do a whole lot of blades. Use the long, thin spout that comes with it. The thing to remember is to use a small amount of glue, and always be in control of where it is going.

Start at the barrel end. Point the tang down so the glue will run towards the tang. Put a drop of glue about 1/2" from the barrel. Try to make it a real drop. You will see it wick up towards the barrel. That is good. Watch it run towards the tang. When it slows, drop another drop 1" up from where it stopped. Watch it run. Do that until you are just less than half way down the bend in the blade. Hold it 5 seconds longer than you see it run. Then rub the blade with a piece of paper towel or a rag. This wipes off any glue not in the groove.

Turn the blade around. Start 1" from the shoulder (you don't want to glue all the way down). Do the same thing, one drop, let it run, another drop with a small overlap. Do it until it runs past the glue from the other side. Wipe with paper towel or rag. Turn the blade over so any glue runs toward the middle. Let it sit that way 30 seconds. Take the chain off. Reassemble the tip first, then the handle.

The only technique you need to learn with this is getting a drop (just a drop) out of the bottle. I've found I can teach people this easier than I can teach them how to run the glue bottle along the groove squeezing out glue as you go. The usual result of that is too much glue running everywhere. You can practice getting a drop out of the bottle without a blade, just the bottle over a paper towel. You also learn to hold the blade at an angle that lets you control how fast the glue runs down the blade.

[wbowman]

That's pretty much the technique Dan described to me.
(and I HAVE actually used the "P-word" in front of him -- though I think he shuddered a bit. But maybe he'll be inoculated against seeing it here.)

[Mergs]

Originally Posted by wbowman

That's pretty much the technique Dan described to me.
(and I HAVE actually used the "P-word" in front of him -- though I think he shuddered a bit. But maybe he'll be inoculated against seeing it here.)

Wayne,

Please, Dan's an old man! Don't tempt fate by scratching that raw nerve!!!! BTW, I share Dan's aversion to the P-word. CA is the way to go!