What the best quality electric weapons for Foil & Epee

[Vince]

I'm starting a club up in my town, and I was wondering what would be the best Electric weapons you could buy for students who are just starting fencing.

I am very impressed with my Vniti Epee blades, they have held up for a couple of years now, and I've bent them the wrong way more then I should. (WAY more than I should)

so for Epee, I was planning on going Vniti.

I have not fenced foil yet, so I wasent sure if Vniti's caused problems with foil or anything.

So, the question is,



What do you think the best quality Foil & Epee Electric Weapons are?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Durability wise........
Vniti
Leon paul
STM
BF White

Feel wise....
BF White
STM
Leon Paul
Vniti


Those are just my observations.

[erooMynohtnA]

Vniti is probably your best bet for overall durability, and I think DFP steered you in the right direction, but do you really want to spend that kind of money?

I don't know if "the highest quality weapon" and "the best weapon for beginners" necessarily overlap, but if you want quality, I salute you for it.

I think StM non-FIE foil and epee blades are well-rounded when taking into account feel, durability, and price. I really like their saber blades. I'd also recommend LP tips, because the screws are interchangeable and the foil tips are virtually indestructable (can't speak to the epee tips).

[RITFencing]

If you're buying for beginners to use in club, buy a bunch of cheap ones. You'll get more mileage out of 5 20 dollar PoS blades than 1 100 dollar nice one, and the kids really won't notice the difference. In all honesty, becuase they'll have distance issues starting out, they're going to be tough on any blades that use. Might as well have them breaking cheap ones.

[keropie]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

If you're buying for beginners to use in club, buy a bunch of cheap ones.

Seconded. Beginners have no idea what they're doing (that's why we call them beginners, after all), and they can (and will) destroy whatever weapons you give them. I wouldn't spend a lot on any individual club weapon for beginners ever. When they want to buy their own stuff. Vniti is pretty solid (foil and epee), though there are other blades that feel better for other people. But for club weapons, just cheap. I don't even know that I'd start beginners out with electric weapons, honestly. We don't down here (at the club. . . for the NCAA team, we go electric in a hurry).

[DesertFencer]

Vince,

We just started a club and I agree with the cheapo advice. Whatever you buy will be ragged out pieces of junk by the time you finish your first class. Buy decent cheap stuff. We bought some Absolute gear to sample, and I recommend the rubber handles over the leather-wrapped since they seem to last longer. Also get a bunch of plastic tips. Once they come off, they won't stay on. The only blade we've broken thus far happened while we were straightening it out.

[CvilleFencer]

I second everything said here. At my club I buy POS blades and they get very heavy use. New fencers are going to break gear as they learn distance and timing, even if it is very high dollar gear.

A good split between the super expensive FIE blades and the el cheapo StM's (which are the best bet for the money that I have found) is the LP clup line of blades for foil and epee. They will take a hefty beating, are not quite so crazy expensive and will last longer than most 100+ dollar FIE blades. I would suggest standard LP epee's and LP Etoile foils if you have the money to spend.

I got a bunch of StM and fleche blades when we first started the club for the kids to use. They last about 3-5 months before snapping with a good batch. I got a couple of Etoiles from Barry well over a year ago and they are both in use. Whippy as egg noodles but the noobs don't mind and they are less likely to bruise or hurt on a hard hit. Craig at the Fencing.net store on this sight has a very good price on them. You can also get any LP gear from LP USA with free shipping.

I was about to advise you to buy them bare and wire them with Sport 7 (all metal) pattern French point but checking LP USA's & Craigs prices, the basic LP tips are very reasonable, especially considering they include the wire and shipping! I may need to look into phasing out our French points on club weapons...

For club jackets LP is hard to beat if you have the money. Also their "Club" line in blue makes a lot of sense for shrinkage (not size wise, but stolen/lost/accidently taken home wise), fit (works with left or right hand and has internal plastron, safety, the fact that it is very versatile as far as sizing and cleaning. If you have the money to spend that is. Otherwise I would go with Enlighten (Fencing.net house brand, very good quality) or Absolute back zip jackets (get back zip so it can be used by left or right handed fencers!!!). The Absolute glove just can't be beat for the price. They last a long long time, are washable and don't fade all over everything (as long as you don't get the red ones...) for the whopping price of about $10.00.

For Masks, I really want to recommend the LP club range again as LP makes the best mask around IMHO, but for reasons that escape me they made the club range masks not legal for competition in the US or realy usable for any electric weapons and so are fairly useless. I just really don't understand what they were thinking there.... If they insulated the mesh I would recommend them in a heartbeat for the reasons mentioned above on their jackets. Still, if you order their normal non-FIE mask it will give a club years of good service. The mesh on both masks is Stainless Steel so it is basically the same and far superior to most other non-FIE masks. For the cheap end, Enlighten or Absolute's $45 dollar mask is durable, comfy and well made.

Hope all that was some help. I am a gear nut and have used/tested a lot of what is out there as have many other coaches/fencers/armourers on this board. Let us know if you have any other gear questions.

[RITFencing]

Cville, I think you have a good point about the LP tips, at least for epee. Leon Paul's tip screws just don't fall out, and while they're more expensive you won't lose nearly as many.

[seak]

Cheap is good for club....at this point we pretty much buy the cheap stuff from absolute and have had very good luck with it. When people figure out what they like they buy it for themselves

Since not everybody likes the same type of blade when they are ready for good blades it makes sense to let them pick their own.

Oh and def get back zip jackets! Just go with the cheap stuff, the people who are really going to stick with it, tend to start buying their own gear soon anyways.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by seak

Oh and def get back zip jackets! Just go with the cheap stuff, the people who are really going to stick with it, tend to start buying their own gear soon anyways.

Agreed... they're ambidextrous and they encourage people to buy their own jackets. Not to mention cheap. Can't beat that.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

Cville, I think you have a good point about the LP tips, at least for epee. Leon Paul's tip screws just don't fall out, and while they're more expensive you won't lose nearly as many.

Also for an armourers point of view, only needing one type of tip screw is very very nice...

[Vince]

Thank you all for the great information guy's, this is a huge help for me.

You guy's seem to really know your stuff, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

[RITFencing]

Actually, don't tell anyone, but we're complete frauds. We have no idea wha we're doing. Following our advice will lead you on a merry path straight to hell.

Just kidding.

And you're welcome.

[bousquet]

My son and I just started epee last year and we bought the Dinamo/Fleche blades about 15 months ago. They are inexpensive, and have held up well. I like them, not too stiff - not too whippy. My next blade will probably be the Dinamo FIE blade. If I was buying for a club, I'd get a bunch of them.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by bousquet

My son and I just started epee last year and we bought the Dinamo/Fleche blades about 15 months ago. They are inexpensive, and have held up well. I like them, not too stiff - not too whippy. My next blade will probably be the Dinamo FIE blade. If I was buying for a club, I'd get a bunch of them.

Dynamo/Fleche are the same blades are StM just FYI. Some vendors like to give the carbon copy gear they sell an odd name so you think that you can only buy it from them. But yeah, for cheapo blades, they are tops.

[knave]

If you'll be starting beginners with french grips, you ought to check out the LP ambidexterous handle. You can slap it on club weapons and not have to worry about how many right/left handed weapons you need for each practice.

[bousquet]

>>Dynamo/Fleche are the same blades are StM just FYI.<<

Hmmm, just when I thought I was getting this stuff all sorted out. I know Fleche blades are made by Dinamo due the Dinamo stamp that is on the blade near the Fleche stamp. The StM blades appear to have a different stamp. I know both are Ukranian. I thought the forge stamped the blade even if they are to be stamped again with a retailer's name, to show who acutally made the blade. Is there only one Ukranian blade maker - StM? There appear to be several vendors selling blades under the Dinamo name. I see now where Blade is using the name Dinamo for some of the blades they sell and not just calling them Fleche.

Not questioning what you're saying, just trying to get it all staight. How many actual blade mfg are there really? I know about the following:

BF - French
Vniti, - Russian
Prieur - French
Leon Paul - English
StM - Ukranian
Dinamo/Fleche - Ukranian
and the various cheap Chinese blades.

Do I have that right? Is it everyone's understanding that StM and Dinamo are from the same forge/mfg?

[Tomas N]

Vince,

Are you going to be the instructor? If so, you might want to just stick to the weapon you know best, and not teach foil or sabre at all. That would cut down on weapon expenses.

Tomas

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

If you're buying for beginners to use in club, buy a bunch of cheap ones. You'll get more mileage out of 5 20 dollar PoS blades than 1 100 dollar nice one, and the kids really won't notice the difference. In all honesty, becuase they'll have distance issues starting out, they're going to be tough on any blades that use. Might as well have them breaking cheap ones.

I agree, but I want to point out that good fencers buying blades for themselves will usually find it more cost-effective to buy nice FIE blades. The problem is that beginners, as said, have no sense of distance and just wail on whatever blades they get.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by bousquet

How many actual blade mfg are there really?

Here's another thread discussing different forges.

I also think you might find this webpage very informative.