Star Wars & fencing...

[The Crazy Wacker]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>If you watch A New Hope, you will see a lot of circular parrying and the use of the point. That seems to have been lost in the next three movies.

Despite my preference for western swordsmanship, I have always envisioned the light sabre as being an eastern weapon. It resembles the Katanan to an extent. The main difference is that both sides of the light sabre may be used for cutting while only one side of a Katana is used for cutting.

I am not too hopeful for Episode II. In my mind, Lucas has already proved that he's lost his feel for Star Wars, or that he doesn't care and just wants more money. He is trying to wow us with effects rather than giving us story and atmosphere as with the original trilogy. Jar Jar ruined the few scenes that actually had that feel. Its really a shame that Lucas hasn't been up to par. I've seen the trailers and the guy they have for Anakin is too much of a crybaby, completely unlikeable.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You also have to look at the fact that (if you've read the young jedi books) That all the jedi's were chosen when they were VERY young, around 2 years old... They had schooling all there life... They were also taught to fight with the sword... Build there sword... Use the force... things like this, before they were chosen as a padawin or apprentice. This does not happen with Anakin (vader) or Luke. Anakin never got the schooling he was suppose to, he went strait to being an apprentice when he was around 12. Luke didn't get much of anything except a sword and an oponent, until he met yoda and ran around with yoda on his back. Thats why it may look a little diffrent from the older versions of starwars, where mainly luke and vader fight, who never got the proper jedi schooling. But seriously If they can move things with there mind maybe yoda stands back and controls the lightsabre from a safe place. Or maybe he swings it around and does some jumping junk and kills 'em. If they all can move things with there mind then they should just stand back and let the lightsabre 'do the talking'
I think Dart's right as the lightsabres being a Katana style weapon. As they hold it like it is half the time.

[GreyGhost]

Looks like baster sword to me. As for their parries, Well, wouldn't you have to parry like that is you have no crossguard or bellguard?

Still, If you have a beam of light and not a 'blade,' I would think you would use the point alot more, mearly because the thrust is faster then the swing. (And the fencing in ep 1 is much worse then in the other three. Especially on the part of darth maul.)

[I see dead people]

people!! Light sabre duel is not real!! Neither is fencing sport. They are both equally unrealistic relative to the real thing. No point using one to justify the other.

[I see dead people]

[quote]Originally posted by Matt Ostergard:
<strong><a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020421/nysu017a_1.html" target="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020421/nysu0 17a_1.html</a>

Hey! Read that! There's hope for Episode 2!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll believe it when episode 2 gets a PG-13 instead of G or PG.

[ 04-28-2002: Message edited by: I see dead people ]</p>

[reptile]

[quote]Originally posted by I see dead people:
<strong>people!! Light sabre duel is not real!! Neither is fencing sport. They are both equally unrealistic relative to the real thing. No point using one to justify the other.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I DO think we all are aware of this. We enjoy speculation. What else is the water cooler there for?

[D'Artagnan1673]

I've noticed that I see Dead People dislikes any conversation or thought process that goes below the surface of fencing. Anything of depth is therefore silly and unimportant.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Ok Crazy Whacker, you've got a point there.

I too have considered this when justifying why Naboo fighters look more sophisticated than X-Wings, even though X-Wings are never technology. It all has to do with a "Dark Ages" entering over the Galaxy thanks to the Empire.

Ok Vader/Anakin. If he looks really awesome and skilled with a blade in this movie, as Obi-Wan did in EP1, then your theory is blown. We all know that age doesn't slow down men of the sword to the extent that you see Vader and Kanobi fighting in EPIV. Also, if Anakin is a skilled master even without proper training in EPII, then it proves that there is a discrepency in skill between the trilogys.

[The Crazy Wacker]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>Ok Crazy Whacker, you've got a point there.

I too have considered this when justifying why Naboo fighters look more sophisticated than X-Wings, even though X-Wings are never technology. It all has to do with a "Dark Ages" entering over the Galaxy thanks to the Empire.

Ok Vader/Anakin. If he looks really awesome and skilled with a blade in this movie, as Obi-Wan did in EP1, then your theory is blown. We all know that age doesn't slow down men of the sword to the extent that you see Vader and Kanobi fighting in EPIV. Also, if Anakin is a skilled master even without proper training in EPII, then it proves that there is a discrepency in skill between the trilogys.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe his suit gets in the way...
You also have to lok at this... There are knobs on the lightsabres. They change the power of the sword, to be so low it just merely burns your flesh, to cutting metal. There is also one controlling the Length of the blade. Why don't they just stand back and turn the knob so it shoots 20 feet at the opponent? About vader.... He's like 80% machine in the last 3 right? Maybe thats why his swordplay looks a little off. Maybe after around episode 2-3 he doesn't sword fight for years while he builds up his empire. So when he finaly duels Obi-Wan, in A New Hope, Its his first time in awhile, so he's a little sloppy.

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

You people are thinking too hard.

It's a movie. If you think too much, it ruins the whole plot, because then you're finding all these contradicting things in the triology.

[Ben[PrFC]]

I was watching the empire strikes back on TV a few days back, and did notice that their actions are much too big, as is common in theatrical sword play. However I did notice one difference between star wars and most swashbuckling movies in that, in star wars the jedi seem to acknowledge the fact that BLADE IS NOT TARGET heh.
They're swinging for their opponent, not their opponents blade, unlike most movies with swordplay out there.
Just thought Id toss that in.

[Event Horizon]

I'm sure we all can agree that the Fencing in Star Wars isn't real. However, it is based on real fencing such as Kendo and maybe some other styles. Since it is based on real Fencing techniques then it's obivious we are going to talk about it here on fencing.net.

I remember reading that George Lucas is enthralled by Japanese history & culture. So it doesn't surprise me that the Jedi Knights are probably based on Samurai warriors and the ways of the Jedi are probably based on the Bushido code.

What do you think the Jedi Knights use to train on the light saber? In order to get good at attacking, parrying, reposteing, etc. you need to hold the "blade" in your hand. And you know as well as I do that during a practice, somebody gets hit. But who wants to get hit with an energy blade. I don't think there's any protective equipment made to withstand a hit from a light saber. And it's not like you can put a rubber tip on those things. <img src="graemlins/freak4.gif" border="0" alt="[Freak2]" />

[The Crazy Wacker]

[quote]Originally posted by Event Horizon:
<strong>I'm sure we all can agree that the Fencing in Star Wars isn't real. However, it is based on real fencing such as Kendo and maybe some other styles. Since it is based on real Fencing techniques then it's obivious we are going to talk about it here on fencing.net.

I remember reading that George Lucas is enthralled by Japanese history & culture. So it doesn't surprise me that the Jedi Knights are probably based on Samurai warriors and the ways of the Jedi are probably based on the Bushido code.

What do you think the Jedi Knights use to train on the light saber? In order to get good at attacking, parrying, reposteing, etc. you need to hold the "blade" in your hand. And you know as well as I do that during a practice, somebody gets hit. But who wants to get hit with an energy blade. I don't think there's any protective equipment made to withstand a hit from a light saber. And it's not like you can put a rubber tip on those things. <img src="graemlins/freak4.gif" border="0" alt="[Freak2]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I was reading some books about jedi... And it goes like this:
The jedi make there own sword around the age of 6, They put special rocks in the to change the color. The swords have special knobs that change the power and length of th sword. For practice they nerf the power down pretty low so that it just 'sizzles' the skin so you can feal it. I was reading about a fight between Obi-Wan and some other jedi when they were 13, and they had to fight blindfolded. That explains how they practice with them atleast.

[The Crazy Wacker]

[quote]Originally posted by Bebop and Rocksteady:
<strong>You people are thinking too hard.

It's a movie. If you think too much, it ruins the whole plot, because then you're finding all these contradicting things in the triology.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I always think hard... Thats what makes me so smart

[D'Artagnan1673]

Ben[PrFC],

Excellent, excellent observation! You hit on a very good point there.

[I see dead people]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>I've noticed that I see Dead People dislikes any conversation or thought process that goes below the surface of fencing. Anything of depth is therefore silly and unimportant.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are right, I only enjoy stuff that goes above the surface of fencing.

[reptile]

When the MAD magazine made fun of the original "Empire Strikes Back" they pictured Vader going en garde and in fencing position with his off hand up, which stripped him of all his evil coolness. Couldn't find that one but i also liked this:

<img src="graemlins/jawa.gif" border="0" alt="[Jawa]" />

[D'Artagnan1673]

Has anyone ever seen George Lucas in love?

[The Crazy Wacker]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>Has anyone ever seen George Lucas in love?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You mean with chewy? <img src="graemlins/jester.gif" border="0" alt="[Jester]" />

[nahouw]

The activity in the Star Wars series is not fencing, but it is rather martial arts. Fencing has evolved so far from its martial roots that it can't be included under the umbrella of martial arts, but then again, that is entirely new topic.

Ray Park, who portrayed Darth Maul, is a black belt in both kung fu and wu shu, as well as being a high-level tae kwon do competitor. All the sword play is based on those Chinese martial arts -- which makes it a more Chinese based system, rather than the Japanese based system of kendo, that people in this thread apparently think that it is -- how they can make that assumption without being exposed to kendo or any of the other japanese based sword arts, I don' t know (BTW, I am an aikidoka that is also experienced in iaido, so I know Japanese sword arts.)

Numerous interviews with Ray Park talk about how he had to create a new martial art for this movie -- how it took its base from his experience, and added the swordplay aspect to it within the context of the Chinese arts.

[Event Horizon]

In Re: the last post by nahouw
I don't claim to be an expert on any type of Fencing. I make educated guesses and assumptions like everyone one else. I don't see anything wrong with making assumptions on this board. In here, ideas are posted to be shared with others. Isn't that what a forum is for? Those who know correctly, or feel differently, will tell you if you are right or not.

[quote]that people in this thread apparently think that it is -- how they can make that assumption without being exposed to kendo or any of the other japanese based sword arts, I don' t know (BTW, I am an aikidoka that is also experienced in iaido, so I know Japanese sword arts.)<hr></blockquote>. By saying this, aren't you making an assumption yourself? How do you know who has been exposed to what kind of Fencing techniques/styles? See my point?

You talk about the fighting in Episode I but don't mention Episode IV-VI. What is your take on the Fencing in those movies?