List of white light culprits

[Chafunkta]

I just wrote this up today while at work. I've attempted to make a checklist for what is causing white lights in foil (besides hitting your opponent off-target). Here's what I came up with. Feel free to add things, tell me something's wrong, whatever.



What in the heck do I do about these white lights?!?!
A critical exam of what could go wrong in a foil…
(special thanks to KD5MDK for most of this list)

White lights in foil are caused by a bad connection between the B and C lines. The wire on your foil is broken somewhere, or some connection is bad. The following is a list of where the connection can be lost (and where your problem is).


The format is: #) where the bad connection is
a) why there’s a bad connection
i. how to fix it

1) The reel connection to the body cord
a. The floor cords could be the problem or it could be the reel itself.
i. Check by testing with another working weapon or shorting the lines on the floor cord
2) In the body cord
a. The wire may be corroded or broken somewhere. Examine the cord to check for breaks
i. If the body cord has flat connections screws, make sure all are tinned (soldered tip)
ii. If piercing screws are used, make sure the screw is piercing the insulation, and that a small wire gauge is used (18 is preferred)
1. Loosen screw ½ turn and then tighten to secure connection
3) In the body cord’s connection to the socket
a. For a bayonet socket, the plug will feel loose
i. The spring may not be strong enough to hold the plug in for the connection
b. For a two-prong plug, the plugs may not be in good contact with the socket
i. Bend the plugs out for a Leon Paul type plug
ii. Bend the outside “sheathing” for BG style plugs
c. The socket or plug end are rusty and need to be cleaned
i. Clean the ends with rubbing alcohol to remove rust
4) In the socket to foil wire connection
a. Make sure the wire is stripped so the socket’s screw can maintain contact
i. Try stripping out more wire to make contact with the screw (you should have excess wire anyway)
b. The wire is broken in the spaghetti tubing
i. Take off the spaghetti tubing to make sure the wire is intact
ii. Make sure the wire is not being pinched by the grip
5) In the socket to bell guard ground
a. Make sure the handle is tight so that the socket is making good connection with the bell guard
6) In the wire down the blade
a. The wire could break and the glue could prevent it from grounding on the blade. If it is a small break it could make an intermittent white light.
i. Visually inspect the wire in the groove
7) In the barrel’s connection to the blade
a. If the barrel’s loose it could have broken the wire, causing white lights
i. Use loctite when putting on a barrel. It’s almost impossible to revive a weapon with a loose barrel other than rewiring.
8) In the tip
a. Dirt in the tip could prevent connection
i. Clean out the tip with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol. Use a spring attached to a drill to brush off the corrosion
b. The wire cup may be cracked or loose.
i. Inspect cup before placing it inside the weapon
ii. Use a cup setter when wiring to ensure the cup is pushed all the way into the barrel
c. The grub screws are dented/loose
i. Replace or retighten the screws. It’s suggested that you replace the screws. They’re cheap anyway
d. The tip is missing
i. Put on a new tip.
e. The tip is stuck
i. The barrel is most likely dented. Reem it out with a reemer.


In case the formatting errors are annoying you, check the attachment.

[DHCJr]

First, I would suggest you reverse the order. When you are trying to fix a problem, the most efficient way to do that is to start with where the problem is most likely to be. I would start with the tip and work your way back to the machine.

As far as "It’s almost impossible to revive a weapon with a loose barrel other than rewiring." I disagree. That is unless the wire has been broken or their is a shoulder on the blade which you didn't mention about fixing.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

First, I would suggest you reverse the order. When you are trying to fix a problem, the most efficient way to do that is to start with where the problem is most likely to be. I would start with the tip and work your way back to the machine.

i disagree with this. if you find a problem in the tip, it might actually be a tip problem. or maybe it isn't a tip problem and its really a broken body cord. but you misdiagnosed it because you "found" a problem with the tip. you've lost a lot of time trying to fix a problem in the body cord by messing with the tip.

perhaps expert armourers can sniff the tip and give a 100% diagnosis, but most fencers can't. i believe it to be more efficient by checking it from the top down to prevent dependancy errors.

As far as "It’s almost impossible to revive a weapon with a loose barrel other than rewiring." I disagree. That is unless the wire has been broken or their is a shoulder on the blade which you didn't mention about fixing.

i agree with this.

[DHCJr]

How often is there a problem with a machine? a floor cord? a reel? a body cord? a weapon? From experience, the weapon causes the most problem on the strip.

Maybe I should have said more. What I first do is find out in what piece of equipment the problem lies, not in the individual component of the equipment. I first find out if there is a problem with anything from the body cord on back. If there is no problem, then I know it is the weapon. From that point, I check the components of the weapon from the tip on back. This is a very simple test. Short out the body cord and see if you get any white lights while moving to see for any intemittents. If there is a problem, I have eliminated the whole weapon including a loose barrel.

Let us look at it another way. The last person had no problem with white lights. Is it more likely to have a problem with the next persons equipment or with the machine, floor cords and reel that were used by the previous person.

Testing Foil is much easier than testing Epee, since with intermittent Foil problems show up since Foil is a Fail-Safe system, just jiggle it a little for a white light. Intermittents in Epee are much harder to find.

[KD5MDK]

Then there's the possibility that there's a problem with the weapon AND reel.

[DHCJr]

Your right and there is a posibility of the machine, floor cord, reel, body cord and weapon all being bad. There is also the posibility of the sun blowing up while I sleep tonight.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

How often is there a problem with a machine? a floor cord? a reel? a body cord? a weapon? From experience, the weapon causes the most problem on the strip.

Maybe I should have said more. What I first do is find out in what piece of equipment the problem lies, not in the individual component of the equipment. I first find out if there is a problem with anything from the body cord on back. If there is no problem, then I know it is the weapon. From that point, I check the components of the weapon from the tip on back. This is a very simple test. Short out the body cord and see if you get any white lights while moving to see for any intemittents. If there is a problem, I have eliminated the whole weapon including a loose barrel.

Let us look at it another way. The last person had no problem with white lights. Is it more likely to have a problem with the next persons equipment or with the machine, floor cords and reel that were used by the previous person.

Testing Foil is much easier than testing Epee, since with intermittent Foil problems show up since Foil is a Fail-Safe system, just jiggle it a little for a white light. Intermittents in Epee are much harder to find.

but how much longer does it take you to check/fix a problem with a weapon as opposed to the machine?

beyond that, when i'm on the strip, i've had more problems with plugs falling out or body cords breaking than my weapon breaking.

[DHCJr]

Then you are lucky. If your body cord falls out then you can see the problem and depending on the type of body cord you have that may be a problem with your weapon. Also considering M.5.3, you have a illegal body cord/weapon connector combination.

After a while you get lazy. You find the problems easiest to find and more often the problem.

[rsy]

Loose connection in the opponents "a" line. Have the opponent short out his weapon to his lame, then wiggle the connections to see if the short light goes on and off.

Reversed b & c lines in the body cord. This means that the weapon is always off target. You think at first think that it is on the opponent's circuit, a bad lame, or a bad connection from clip to lame or a bad "a" line. You then ask the fancer if they recently worked on their body cord and they always say, "No, and it was just working on the other strip/in my pool/in my last DE." If it is a two prong, test by reversing the plug and holding it to the socket while you test against the opponent's lame. Lo and behold! Even though the fencer hasn't worked on the bodycord, even though it was just working perfectly on the other strip, somehow the b & c lines magically reversed themselves. You would think that this would be rare, but it isn't.

-r

[DHCJr]

These are good suggestions and they do happen too often.

I added to your reputation, but I messed up and left it blank as to the reason.

I have a way I use that convinces the fencer to change their body cord instead of their opponents. I have the fencer plug in their weapon, place the blade on the lame' and depress the tip. Then I give them an option, learn how to hit with the side of the blade while depressing the tip or change their body cord because their opponents body cord obviously allows a touch.

[HDG]

Let me insert a white light question here, since results of searching were too scattered:

I brought home a clubmates weapons to tune up for him (young kid, so I don't fault him for not doing his own armory), put them on the tester and they work well, except that they give a white light when I beat with the blade. Took the tip apart, cleaned it out, replaced the spring and screws, but the problem persists. I'm predicting a pre-emptive re-wire, but what am I overlooking?

[rsy]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

These are good suggestions and they do happen too often.

I added to your reputation, but I messed up and left it blank as to the reason.

Thanks for the rep point. I picked thie idea about the short lights from a post on here, it might have been yours, but I am too lazy to look it up. Thanks for the idea about shorting to the lame to make the colored light go off. Pretty cute.

-r

[telkanuru]

The primary cause of white lights is current flowing through the bulbs/diodes. Perhaps disconnecting the power supply will stop them from going off.

Or you could just fence epee...

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by HDG

Let me insert a white light question here, since results of searching were too scattered:

I brought home a clubmates weapons to tune up for him (young kid, so I don't fault him for not doing his own armory, put them on the tester and they work well, except that they give a white light when I beat with the blade. Took the tip apart, cleaned it out, replaced the spring and screws, but the problem persists. I'm predicting a pre-emptive re-wire, but what am I overlooking?

You did not state what type of connector. Let us assume 2-prong. Also let us assume you checked the body cord works.

1) Check the barrel. Is it loose?
2) Bend the blade. If the light goes on broken wire.
3) Is the nut tight on the wire connector?
4) Is the nut tight on the ground connector?
5) Is the handle tight?

That is a quick and dirty.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You did not state what type of connector. Let us assume 2-prong. Also let us assume you checked the body cord works.

1) Check the barrel. Is it loose?
2) Bend the blade. If the light goes on broken wire.
3) Is the nut tight on the wire connector?
4) Is the nut tight on the ground connector?
5) Is the handle tight?

That is a quick and dirty.

Thank you for your reply DHC; these were all things that I investigated (I've learned a lot in this section over the last 2 years), and that's why I'm so puzzled. It is a two prong. The barrel is good and tight; no white light from a bend of the blade. The connectors are nice and tight. The grip is nice and tight.

I also tried different tips (they have french tips) on the off chance that there is an incompatibility b/w barrel and tip -- Prieur - Sport7 mismatch, etc.

[MTD]

Is there any looseness of the fit of either prong of the body cord into the socket?

If so, does the white light not recur if steps are taken to temporarily or permanently eliminate the looseness?

If not, does the white light not recur if a wire with two alligator clips is inserted into the system at a key spot which eliminates certain possible problems from the system? (E.g., shorting the tip to the foible eliminates the contact spot between the moving and stationary parts of the tip, the contact between the stationary part and the screws, between the screws and the barrel, and between the barrel and the foible. Shorting from the C line socket to the blade eliminates the contact between the C line socket and the bracket, between the bracket and the guard, between the guard and the blade. Shorting from the B line socket and the blade eliminates a lot, including intermittent breaks in the wire itself.) Just be sure the alligator clips are firm enough that they do not vibrate momentarily out of contact due to the test beats.

[HDG]

Thanks for these suggestions MTD; I rewired it already, but when it didn't seem to fix the problem I had an embarrasingly belated moment of clarity: I started fiddling with his bodycord (he uses two-prong, I use bayonet), problem found. Apparently it was never a problem with his weapon, but his cheapa_ _ BG bodycord. I'm out two wires, but I won't make this mistake again.

[swordsen]

I always assume body cord if I can't find anything obvious with the blade. It comes from working in a club witha bunch of old beat up cords.

[Linkthealmighty]

This was a good idea. Thanks