Fencing for Kids

[Five Rings]

I have started my kids fencing (its the only sport through which I can "communicate" with them) - ages 8 and 6, and both are very interested in the game and seem to be moderately good at it (better than basketball or baseball anyway). I have the following questions to throw out there to this forum:

1. One of them is reluctant to practice unless his coach makes him do it (i.e., he will not practice at home by himself). Anyone has any pointers on incentives, etc. to make a younger kid practice (words alone won't do it - I am looking for something that will make it more fun for him)?

2. Are there any ancillary exercises/games they can do to build up strength and speed?

3. I was trained as a "classical" fencer (French grip, raised non-sword arm, etc.). His salle is more "modern" in approach - pistol grip, dropped arm, etc. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether either approach is "better" for a youngster, and whether I should insist on one approach outside of the salle (some of the instructor's methods - e.g., use of wrist rather than fingers - makes me cringe, but it may just be me).

4. Any thoughts on when/how to introduce kids to competitive fencing (e.g., what ages, what levels, etc.)? I have observed younger kids in competitions, and it seems pretty messy - its not like you can walk away with a post-game analysis. I certainly don't want them to go in and be discouraged or to pick up bad habits.

5. Right now they are doing foil - when do/should they transition to epee/sabre?

Maybe I am overanalyzing this - I have scoured various manuals and books and can't really come up with anything new. I can assure you that I am NOT a stage parent and I only want them to have a sport they can enjoy and that I can occasionally join them in.

[Peach]

What age are your kids? It matters for replies.

[Jason]

Kids fence to have fun. Let them have fun. They are way too young to be worrying about extra strength, speed, etc. exercises. Everything they do increases their strength and speed.

Why have them practice at home? What's the point of that? If they are enjoying the practice they are getting at the club, that's enough. If they don't want to practice at home, pushing them to do it will not be beneficial. Remember: the motivation of children--particularly such small children--is not the same as that of adults. The kids want to play with other kids. Sure they want to feel competent--but in the context of playing with other kids. Push the kids too hard now and they'll be out of the sport by the time they're 15.

What's important now is that they have fun and develop a love of the sport.

[Five Rings]

What age are your kids? It matters for replies.

6 and 8. I realize they are on the younger side.

[Five Rings]

Push the kids too hard now and they'll be out of the sport by the time they're 15.

What's important now is that they have fun and develop a love of the sport.

That is great insight. I started older - 16 - so I don't have much experience about burnout with kids, and I want to emphasize that I am actually not pushing them to compete. I agree that fun is the essential element at this age. Thanks.

[edew]

I have started my kids fencing (its the only sport through which I can "communicate" with them) - ages 8 and 6, and both are very interested in the game and seem to be moderately good at it (better than basketball or baseball anyway). I have the following questions to throw out there to this forum:

1. One of them is reluctant to practice unless his coach makes him do it (i.e., he will not practice at home by himself). Anyone has any pointers on incentives, etc. to make a younger kid practice (words alone won't do it - I am looking for something that will make it more fun for him)?

Kids shouldn't be practicing at home until they learn what correct things to practice. Otherwise, they'll develop bad habits when practicing unsupervised by a coach.

2. Are there any ancillary exercises/games they can do to build up strength and speed?

At ages 6 and 8, it makes no sense to develop strength and speed. Indeed, doing so may actually permanently alter their natural growth processes. Better to work on understanding the game and developing coordination rather than strength and speed.

3. I was trained as a "classical" fencer (French grip, raised non-sword arm, etc.). His salle is more "modern" in approach - pistol grip, dropped arm, etc. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether either approach is "better" for a youngster, and whether I should insist on one approach outside of the salle (some of the instructor's methods - e.g., use of wrist rather than fingers - makes me cringe, but it may just be me).

I would suggest using the grip that they plan to use when competing. If it's french grip, then so be it. I teach all my foil fencers to use the pistol grip from day one. They try to use the french and realize that they just can't get a handle (ha-ha) on it. Some do, however, and I have no problems with them using it.

At ages 6 and 8, using the wrist is fine. Look, the kids probably can't even use a pencil properly. Asking them to manipulate a 3-foot long metal rod with their fingers will discourage them fast enough.

4. Any thoughts on when/how to introduce kids to competitive fencing (e.g., what ages, what levels, etc.)? I have observed younger kids in competitions, and it seems pretty messy - its not like you can walk away with a post-game analysis. I certainly don't want them to go in and be discouraged or to pick up bad habits.

USFA has a 7 years old minimum age limit. I suggest introducing them to competitive fencing ASAP. It's still just a game, but don't make a big stink on winning or losing or actually putting them in NACs and such. Just some local or club tournament so that they get a feel for the sport and understand that fencing is a game, not self-defense life or death skills.

5. Right now they are doing foil - when do/should they transition to epee/sabre?

If they like foil, stick with foil. If they seem to have a penchance for saber or epee, switch immediately. There's no "graduating" from foil to any other weapon. The tactics and techniques are so different in the three weapons that it makes no sense to start in one weapon for a while and then move to another weapon.

Maybe I am overanalyzing this - I have scoured various manuals and books and can't really come up with anything new. I can assure you that I am NOT a stage parent and I only want them to have a sport they can enjoy and that I can occasionally join them in.

You are overanalyzing this. Let them have fun, teach them how to win in the sense of understanding the game. Let them develop whatever methods to play the game given their physical attributes. It makes no sense to teach the flick, for example, to 6-year-olds if they can't possibly do it.

[Five Rings]

Kids shouldn't be practicing at home until they learn what correct things to practice. Otherwise, they'll develop bad habits when practicing unsupervised by a coach.

Should have mentioned that I have fenced for a number of years and also coached for awhile. I get your point (ha ha) about not supervising them.

[RITFencing]

I agree with edew on all counts. Don't fall into the trap that many parents do, pushing their kids way too hard to improve and win. They're 6 and 8. Let them be kids, and just be glad that there's an activity that you can do with them that all of you enjoy, and that you can continue into later life. Just be thankful for that, and worry about everything else later if they decide they want to really become competitive. In fencing, as in everything else, it's best if the motivation to compete comes from themselves, because they want it and they love it, not from an external source.

[Fencergrl]

Personally.... I wouldn't worry about developing them as fencers (or at any sport) at this point. Lots and lots of kids get focussed on a sport either because their coach or parent or they push themselves... only to find they burn out really quickly. Fencing is a sport they can do for their lifetime, they have lots and lots of time to learn.

I come from a family of athletes and coaches. We spend more time holding the kids back from wanting to go to every development camp they can (in their sports) because we all see too much burnout happening among the kids. Some of us went through it ourselves when we were younger.

Let them just have fun. I think it’s more important that they love the sports they participate in rather than work like demons on their skills. Kids will often be good at what they play if they have passion for the sport.

If they do/ don't want to practice at home, that's fine. If they do /don't want to compete, that's okay too. If they want to play other sports, let them. My niece became a better soccer player by learning karate.... who would think that would be the best way to develop the skills she needed???

I tend to be of the opinion that kids shouldn't be too focussed on anything. Variety develops skills and keeps things interesting and fun. If your kids don't do well in other sports... What about music? Or dance?

That's my 2 cents....

Welcome to the forum by the way...

[Peach]

Yeah, your kids are very young. Their motor skills aren't developed enough at this point for practice at home to do them any good. They should have fun with it.

As a parent of a fencer myself, I suggest picking back up with fencing yourself if you aren't already. Spend some time learning the newer aspects of the sport and bouting yourself. It will keep you out of your kids' hair and you will be able to communicate better with them about it. At the age of your kids, the importance of a role model cannot be over-emphasized.

[RITFencing]

To quote an article from this site:

I hope that you love fencing.
Please, please, please, do it because you enjoy it. There are so many sports and other activities out there to pursue. Do yourself, your coaches and your families a favor, pick activities that your really love. I've never met a parent that doesn't want that for their children. Also, I've never felt bad losing a student to another passion. I only feel bad losing a student to fear, lethargy or lack of commitment to anything. In addition, if you look around almost all the greatest athletes are the ones who simply love playing their sports.

That's from "A championship effort" by Dave Littel. The fun they can have is by far the most important aspect of fencing. There's really no other reason to do this sport.

[Five Rings]

I tend to be of the opinion that kids shouldn't be too focussed on anything. Variety develops skills and keeps things interesting and fun. If your kids don't do well in other sports... What about music? Or dance?

Welcome to the forum by the way...

Fencing is a "winter" sport here (in CT, anything outdoors is out of the question between Nov - Mar). They do soccer/baseball/basketball (not all at the same time) and like these a lot. Also they have music and dance in school. I am of the same mind-set as you in that I have held the older one back from competing (his salle suggested he enter a competition) because of my own personal experience in getting burned out with an over-demanding coach (at one point suggested I put my college admission on hold for 3 years to train in Europe - aaarrrghhh!).

Finally, I have a forum where I fit in - hard being a fencer when no-one else understands what you are saying or why your arm makes those parrying actions while you stare into space in the office!

[RITFencing]

Wow, your kids really love sports! What got them interested in all of these things?

[Five Rings]

Wow, your kids really love sports! What got them interested in all of these things?

It was that or the two boys would have torn my house apart. I don't know about you, but I have had the sofa used as a springboard for swan dives (onto the hardwood floor), tennis games in the hallway, cannonball dives into the bathtub, lightsaber fights in the kitchen right next to the stove, etc. Only way I can get them to sit for dinner and go to bed is to wear them out physically! Its fun and way better than having them sit in front of a Playstation or the TV.

[sleepyweasle]

I'm glad to see your kids are exposed to and participate in so many activities - this will help make them well rounded individuals when they grow up (if they enjoy all these things).

Young kids should be exposed to as many activities as possible. As they get older they will naturally begin to narrow down the scope of their activities and concentrate on the ones they love without your intervention. This will be self motivated - pushing kids to do something you think they should be doing often has the opposite effect.

Encourage your kids to explore their options - then support them when they choose...

(Of course when your kid decides they'd rather fence than do anything else - including schoolwork - you may have to remind them they still have some obligations! )

[RITFencing]

Absolutely; I remember being a kid that age. I used to run around outside like a little idiot for hours. No homework, no organization, no bureaucracy... It was bliss, but I was too young to appreciate it.

[tbryan]

Should have mentioned that I have fenced for a number of years and also coached for awhile. I get your point (ha ha) about not supervising them.

That's nice. That way, when your kid picks up a loaf of bread and wants to "fence" you with it, you both may have somewhat reasonable actions. Beyond that, I'd be really careful about being the at home coach. They're 6 and 8. You're their parent. Just be the parent. I'd recommend thinking more like "let's go to the neighborhood pool and play marco polo" instead of "let's go train to be athletes." It's a fun game, and there are tactics and skills to learn to become better at it. But for now, keep it a game. If they want to talk about fencing, be happy that you have some background to know what they're talking about.

They're years away from when (if they want) they'll really begin "training" instead of just playing. That's fine. Let them enjoy it. Then, even if they never compete very seriously, they may develop the kind of love of the game that make them spectators, recreational fencers, etc.

If they ever do finally begin "training," you'll still want to be careful about the "I coached for a while" thing. After fencing practice, they probably want to tell you about all of the cool things that happened or that they learned. After a tournament, they want you to be happy about their success and to be there for them after a failure. I've talked to some athletes whose parents were their coaches or who at least knew a lot about the sport. It can be difficult in that situation just to have a fun time with your family on the ride back from a competition. They don't want to feel like they're avoiding talking about the tournament, but they just want to spend some time away from the sport for a few hours. They'll talk to their coach later. If they have a coach at practice, and a coach at home, where do they go for the kind of "support" they need when they have a really bad tournament? It'll be much harder for them to be with you if you've established yourself as their assistant coach. Better to stick with your role as a parent and leave all of the coaching to their coaches.

[RITFencing]

I absolutely agree with tbryan; too many kids these days have highly structured lives, to the point where there is always a guided activity or class waiting for them when they get home from school. Boundaries are good, but too much sturcture and organization will prevent them from learning to make their own fun and keep them away from some of the most fun times of being a kid.

[Fencergrl]

It was that or the two boys would have torn my house apart. I don't know about you, but I have had the sofa used as a springboard for swan dives (onto the hardwood floor), tennis games in the hallway, cannonball dives into the bathtub, lightsaber fights in the kitchen right next to the stove, etc. Only way I can get them to sit for dinner and go to bed is to wear them out physically! Its fun and way better than having them sit in front of a Playstation or the TV.

Yeah... boys (and certain tomboys *fencergrl whistles innocently*) are like that. You’ve had some great advice so far.

Your boys will naturally want to be like their dad…. So like Peach said, work on your own fencing and their interest in the sport will naturally develop.

[Five Rings]

Better to stick with your role as a parent and leave all of the coaching to their coaches.

Tell me about it - my wife has already told me to shut up with the extraneous comments during the drive home! Its a bad habit that I have learnt to drop!