Foil going off target why?

[seak]

I have two weapons that failed at the same time a couple of weeks ago. The tip is not loose (I have tightened it on both weapons) and I thought it was the socket, I use bayonet. However after purchasing a new socket and putting the same socket on both weapons (one at a time of course) neither of the weapons worked. On one of the weapons the off target light is constant, on the other one I can make it stop for brief periods but not long enough to fence with it.

Any ideas? The blades on both are fairly new btw but the sockets were a couple of years old

[keith]

well it's never the bayonet socket - they tend to fall apart rather than fail (the LP ones anyway).

I'd reckon you have a broken wire somewhere in the blade/tip, or, you have a dirty tip.

For the one with the intermitent problem; take the blade plug it into the box (or a tester with locking lights) and bend the blade sharply - up/down - if no lights come on clean the tip.

on the weapon with constant off target; disassemble the tip and give it a good clean out with a cotton bud or similar. If that doesn't do the trick then rewire.

generally if cleaning out the tip doesn't solve the problem - rewire.

[seak]

Thanks for the ideas

For clarification one of the weapons had an absolute bayonet the other a triplette, the new bayonet I purchased is I believe a german (it was the only bayonet socket the club I was at for the competition had for purchase). Don't know if that makes a difference or not

[SJCFU#2]

There are some pretty poorly made copies of Lean Paul bayonet sockets out there so you may want to check them out as well.

[D'Art]

Definitely go LP for bayonet sockets. As for the original problems, I'd also tighten, then clean the tips before trying anything else. I just use a moist cotton bud (Q-Tip-type thing). If that doesn't make any difference, the wires have probably been nicked somewhere, so you may want to remove the grip, then check the guard isn't upside down or something stupid like that.

HTH, D'Art.

[Craig]

I have yet to see a "good" copy of the Leon Paul bayonet sockets. That is one item where you definately want to go with the brand name.

Craig

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by seak

I have two weapons that failed at the same time a couple of weeks ago. The tip is not loose (I have tightened it on both weapons) and I thought it was the socket, I use bayonet. However after purchasing a new socket and putting the same socket on both weapons (one at a time of course) neither of the weapons worked. On one of the weapons the off target light is constant, on the other one I can make it stop for brief periods but not long enough to fence with it.

Any ideas? The blades on both are fairly new btw but the sockets were a couple of years old

Lets start at the tip and work our way down to find the problem.

1st. Check your body cord to make sure your B - C lines are good.
2nd. connect your body cord to the test device and weapon.
3rd. Check to see if the barrel is loose at the blade - if this is the problem, tighten the barrel
4th. Spin the tip in the barrel to see if you can creat the problem - if so, can be several items, a. your spring is not making a good connection, b. your screws are not making a good connection to the collar of the tip. c. you have way too much dirt in the barrel/brass collar of the tip and need to clean it out.
If none of the above apply try the following
1. jiggle (like that word?) your body cord at the bayonet socket end. Wanting to see if there is a bad connection at the socket. If this is the problem, you need to replace the socket.
2. Check to insure your grip it tight - a loose grip will cause a breakdown in your B-C connection.
3. Check your wire connection at the socket, sometimes they come loose and make your listed problem.

If still not fixed, now comes more detailed way to figure out problem.

1. Break the weapon down (remove the grip, socket, bell pad and bell guard), using a ohm/volt meter, place the black or red connector to the blade and the other end to the exposed blade wire that was connected to the socket. If you get a 0-2 ohms reading, your good. Check the tip by pressing it down while holding the meter connectors as above, they should make the meter turn off when pressed down. IF this does not happen like listed above, one more item, remove the tip from the barrel, place one of the meter connectors onto the brass plate of the contact that the wire is attached to and the other connector to the exposed wire on the other end. If its good, your not done yet. Bend the blade to an ark. This will tell you if there is a break in the wire that does not show up unless the blade is bent.

IF your blade wire is good, then its somewhere behind the bell guard (socket most likely), if your wire shows to have problems, then its time to replace it, or time to clean out your tip.

Will get some argument over this next comment, yet,,,,anytime I have to rewire a blade, I put a new tip on it. Its better in my opinion to be safe than cheap.

Hope this helps.


Gary Spruill

[Extreme-D]

With a foil the light does not come on when the circuit is open. The weapon has tio be grounded for a light to come on. If your not touching a target, it might be that you have a live current going through you to the box. You would have felt some sort of electrical shock if it happened, so I doubt that's it, but it might help somone reading this. But honestly if all els fails, buy a new complete weapon.

[DangerMouse]

Wow that's a bad post from Ex-D. None of the info in there is correct.

You won't possibly need to do more than rewire with a new tip assembly.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

Wow that's a bad post from Ex-D. None of the info in there is correct.

The tag line is even misspelled.

[mrbiggs]

Just to clarify exactly which parts were wrong...

Originally Posted by Extreme-D

With a foil the light does not come on when the circuit is open.

Nope, when it's closed.

Originally Posted by Extreme-D

The weapon has tio be grounded for a light to come on.

No, the tip is always grounded. If the tip is not grounded, the light comes on. The opposite, by the way, is true in epee.

Originally Posted by Extreme-D

If your not touching a target, it might be that you have a live current going through you to the box.

Fencers have been shocked by old and bad machines before. But it will not cause an off-target light in foil. I don't think it would cause a light in any weapon. (In epee, a light is created by an A-B short, which would not go through your body, and in sabre, you need your opponent.)

The odds of you fencing with such a machine now are near zero, so don't worry about shocks.

Originally Posted by Extreme-D

You would have felt some sort of electrical shock if it happened, so I doubt that's it, but it might help somone reading this.

Hmmm....

Originally Posted by Extreme-D

But honestly if all els fails, buy a new complete weapon.

I'm pretty sure seak didn't post on this forum for that. She could have figured that out on her own...

[Epee Scherma]

Hahaha... that was like a pet groomer trying to explain how to fix a car transmission. Ex-D, your post was hilarious. I'm giving you cool points.

[Extreme-D]

Well there is a reason it says just joined under my name. But I was almost right. Just reverse every thing. But is you grip is not completly insulated and your sweaty glove touchs it, you could get a shock. I got one thing right.

[keropie]

If your grip isn't completely insulated, you have a very sweaty glove, and you are using an old/malfunctioning machine, then sure, it's possible. Roughly the same possibility that the plug for your laptop could disconnect from the brick while you're pulling it out, and sweat could drip from your hand bridging two of the poles on the wire and shocking you. Considerably less likely than walking across a plastic floor/carped and opening a door with a metal handle and shocking yourself. But sure, it's possible . . .

For the record, no one has any issues with people who are new to the sport and/or new to the site asking questions or showing a lack of knowledge. The issue was the fact that you gave advice that was wrong, without any sort of caveat about your lack of experience, and certainly presented it as though you knew what was right. Those of us who do know better were worried that someone who doesn't know better would read your post and get the wrong information.

[twisterfencing]

Seak:

Did any of the information on this thread help you with your problem????

Gary Spruill

[seak]

well as I wasn't being shocked and have nice insulated grips and new boxes I dont think that's the issue

I am planning on armoring this weekend and will be using some of the suggestions (and hoping they work). Thanks to everyone who responded!

[Terilsson]

You probally have a broken wires in your body cord,my good Lady !!!

[mifencer]

Is it a German wire? It might have a plastic urethane coat, try scraping the wire with sandpaper or a knife (or the not recommended, burning the end of it) then try attach it to the socket.

[KD5MDK]

Having an extra coating on the wire doesn't sound like the sort of problem that would suddenly develop, nor likely to be intermittent.

[JackSparrow]

Originally Posted by Terilsson

You probally have a broken wires in your body cord,my good Lady !!!

Can't be the body cord. One of the foils gives a constant off target and the other is intermittent so there are two different problems.