The Real Deal

[ReverseLunge]

Check it out:
http://www.abum.com/file/shadow/videos/16828.wmv

[AllenJ]

meh. its a nifty coordination trick but isnt very practical- even from a historical aspect. Notice how little of a draw there was on the bow. With the target cutting, notice what his body is doing after he cuts. He ends up squatting on the floor- not a very good position to be in if he misses or his cut is displaced. I think this kinda stuff are fun little tricks and do unquestioningly take alot of skill to pull off, its just not applicable in a historical martial arts enviroment.

[ReverseLunge]

So you don't think the historical martial artists needed ways to impress chics?

[Gav]

This is a clip from the BBC (3?) series Mind, Body and Kick Ass movies. The presenter is Chris Crudelli (sp) who is a martial arts 'expert'. I don't mean that in a derogartory way, he certainly knows his stuff. My problem is that the Chris seems to be infected with the very typical woo-stuff that accompanies eastern martial arts. There are some excellent bits in that series - the horse samurai demonstration is particularly interesting.

And trick shots of this sort are normally learned as a demonstration of wider skill. It would be foolish to utterly dismiss someone because of a 30s clip on a BBC martial arts series. I've seen plenty of episodes and if this guy is on it he will feature elsewhere doing some other practical demonstration.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Gav

There are some excellent bits in that series - the horse samurai demonstration is particularly interesting.

What's that one about? Riding skills?

[Gav]

Not exactly. It's about horse archery. There's a group of 'aristocrats' who keep some of the traditions alive. They put on a display where they ride past a set of targets at gallop and fire arrow at them. It's considered to be "bad" if you miss any.

[AllenJ]

Good point Gav. However, all I had to go on was that short clip. I'd be interested in checking out some more. Im not one of those people who cant change their mind That horse archery would be fun to see. That is something that has always been incredibly impressive to me. I think I'd be able to take Asian art more seriously if there wasnt so much of the mysticism and ritual to every little tiny thing. I mean there had to have been someone at some point that said, "wait...sitting on the ground with my eyes closed dosent help me be a better fighter- practice does!"

[Gav]

I dimly rember the episode in question. Later on the same 'master' demonstrates some good old fashioned "hacking things-up" techniques. This particular demonstration is about confidence and poise. That is still an arrow being fired at you - circus trick or no.

Some other pieces which I remember:
A demonstration from a Japanese martial artist who practices one of the traditional sword arts. It's fascinating to watch him sparring with someone else and noting how he uses feints and pschology to put his opponent at a disadvantage.
There is another demonstration of "okinawan karate" (I think) where the black belt is obviously using very well practised psychology to unsettle his opponent - as well as what looks like lethal unarmed efficiency.

Both of these episodes are ruined by Crudelli buying into the really awful "woo-stuff". The sword master gives Crudelli "kick in the privates" by pulling his pinky; the okinawan can hit you without so much as threatening you - WTF?

The show is full of stuff like this and sadly, is partially spoiled by the constant reference to that irritating mysticism. Strip that away and you have some really effificient looking fighting forms, some interesting histories (mythologies as well) and a glimpse of some real poverty.

[RITFencing]

Allen, you've just hit on one reason I don't do asian MAs any more. However, I think that's more in the western interpretation of it. I've heard that in an actual traditional setting, there's a whole lot less of "meditate to find your inner self" and a whole lot more of "practice your head cuts."

This was corroborated by a pal of mine from Japan who happens to be a kendo expert.

[AllenJ]

you any of you remember those videos that were floating around awhile back about some crazy bs Asian "MA" group that claimed they could knowck people down with their Chi? Then there was some group of guys who challenged them and of cource just bowled the nutjobs over. i just remember these idiots in yellow karate gis running and falling on the ground from a supposed chi attack from their trainign partner. Psycho stuff there.