The lunge

[Xenoflame]

I've been told by some A rated fencers that during a full lunge, I should have a slight lean forward and my back foot should slide. Others have said that under no conditions should either occur (leaning, sliding). My coach said it doesn't matter. What do you guys think?

BTW, right now I'm basically self-learning a lot because I haven't found a steady club. Still deciding whether to go to VAF or commute to richmond/DCFC since VAF is generally known for sabre, not epee.

[Jim Letson]

My coach has told me that when I finish my lunge, my front leg should be perpendicular to the floor from the knee down, and that my back foot ought to slide. He recommends that I let it slide so as to get a little extra distance, and so that I don't fall if I lunge deeply.

However, he tells me that I ought to never lean forward. It hurts recovery time after the lunge, and that'll get you tagged a lot, especially in epee.

JL

[TooLoftheDeviL]

However, he tells me that I ought to never lean forward. It hurts recovery time after the lunge, and that'll get you tagged a lot, especially in epee.

Never is prettie harsh for describing actions in fencing. If leaning will hit your opponent, why shouldn't you do it? Fencing form is a means to the end, hitting your opponent, and not getting hit.

So no, not every lunge should slide, or should lean, but set up properly can both be useful tools.

[Fechter1]

The problem with leaning forward is that it shifts your center of gravity forward, which make it harder to recover from a missed lunge. That said, i don't think you'll find many fencers of any level that don't have at least a little lean in full lunge.

As for the back foot sliding, nothing wrong with that. In fact, if your back foot doesn't move at all during a full lunge, you're giving away a good deal of distance. A proper full lunge should have both feet in the air at the same time (at some point after the snap).

[keith]

However, he tells me that I ought to never lean forward. It hurts recovery time after the lunge, and that'll get you tagged a lot, especially in epee.

or at a simple level you will have two lunges a shorter action for probing/counter time/attack in prep that allows rapid recovery and a deeper more commited action that either has to hit or push your opponent backwards.

.... or simply think of the lunge as a transition between two en guards, and the shorter that transition the better.

[Allen Evans]

For a raw beginner, a lot of coaches will advocate that the foot not move in the lunge. Many coaches feel that a few months of these sorts of lunges will keep the fencer from developing the habit of "rolling" onto the ankle later, when their lunges are more powerful. This cuts down on injurys.

Even so, I see many advance fencers not only slide, but roll the ankle as they make their flat out lunges. This isn't necessary a huge problem (though I don't like it very much) provided the lunge is done in such a way that all the power is being released from the back leg, and the foot rotates under as the leg gets reloaded on the recovery.

When ever fencers say the word "lunge" they all have a picture of what that word means, and it isn't necessarily the same picture. There are three, four, or more different flavors of the lunge and some of them are quite different.

Teaching yourself to fence is a tough row to hoe. Get yourself to Richmond, DCFC, or Dominion.

[RITFencing]

As far as the lean, I think the trick is moderation. If you keep the center of your torso over your hips, you're fine. When you start to deviate from that, then you start havign problems recovering.

[theLuz]

My coach has told me that when I finish my lunge, my front leg should be perpendicular to the floor from the knee down, and that my back foot ought to slide. He recommends that I let it slide so as to get a little extra distance, and so that I don't fall if I lunge deeply.

However, he tells me that I ought to never lean forward. It hurts recovery time after the lunge, and that'll get you tagged a lot, especially in epee.

JL

listen to your coach. Jim has it right. It might not matter in epee, as that's just a big lottery, isn't it?

[OROD]

listen to your coach. Jim has it right. It might not matter in epee, as that's just a big lottery, isn't it?

LOL... yeah, listen to your coach... especially if you're fencing me. Then by all means dont lean into your lunge and never, ever, slide your rear foot.

.

[Xenoflame]

listen to your coach. Jim has it right. It might not matter in epee, as that's just a big lottery, isn't it?

As swordfighting is, was, and will be. Yes

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

The important thing with the rolling of ankle, and the lean forward, is that you do them at appropriate times. There are times when you need to roll your ankle, and times when you shouldnt, same with leaning.

The thing with rolling the ankle causing injuries, I believe, is do to bad technique. When I say this, I mean that if you roll your ankle on a lunge, and don't unroll it before the recovery, you're going to be totally boned.

[dramamine]

RE: Rolling of the foot (IMO)

As long as your foot is touching the ground (from the initial contact when you push to get power in your lunge) there should be no reason for it to roll, because it should be pushing to get you moving forward. Many beginners make the mistake of only pushing for an instant and then relaxing their back leg, resulting in a roll. This is not good; however, in most powerful lunges your back foot will briefly leave the ground. At this point vigorous knee extension is not necessary (although it can provide some benefits upon landing, you're in the air so you can't generate any more force), and I think this is why you see a lot of fencers rolling their ankles in competition. They've pushed all they can and their brain has already moved on to other things (chasing, recovery) so they are preparing for that action before their lunge has even finished.

My coach has always said - maybe for safety reasons only - that I shouldn't roll my foot in practice, but doesn't see it as a problem in competition.

[VELISARIOS]

Listen your coach.

[Inquartata]

For a raw beginner, a lot of coaches will advocate that the foot not move in the lunge. Many coaches feel that a few months of these sorts of lunges will keep the fencer from developing the habit of "rolling" onto the ankle later, when their lunges are more powerful. This cuts down on injurys.

Even so, I see many advance fencers not only slide, but roll the ankle as they make their flat out lunges.

Exactly. I do not think that this distinction between what beginners should do and what advanced fencers can do can be overemphasized.

Picasso made his reputation and his fortune by breaking the rules of traditional realistic painting. But he learned them very well first---he could paint with near photographic precision if he wanted to do so.

First learn the fundamentals properly, THEN explore where your idiosyncratic style takes you---once you know how and when the rules can be bent...



Of course, practically speaking it usually does not do to exasperate your coach by refusing to do what he tells you, the way he tells you, either. At least in lessons.