06-21-2006, 04:39 PM
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#1 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
| When Chased to the End of the Strip...
When being forced towards the end of the strip, I have heard that a few foilists hit the floor going off target to gain distance from the edge. Any thoughts? | 
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06-21-2006, 04:42 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Posts: 1,207
| All that would do is interupt the march and I beleive get you a card if the Ref thinks you did it on purpose. The only way you gain ground is if the opponent goes off the side of the strip.
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06-21-2006, 04:46 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,272
| Hit 'em in the foot!
What? It works in epee.  | |
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06-21-2006, 04:46 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,384
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by twiTTy When being forced towards the end of the strip, I have heard that a few foilists hit the floor going off target to gain distance from the edge. Any thoughts? | Just that it's illegal... Quote: |
t.53 A competitor who intentionally causes the apparatus to register a touch by placing his point on the ground or on any surface other than that of his opponent will be penalized as specified in Articles t.114, t.116, t.120.
| ...and a second group red card. Quote: |
Deliberate touch not on opponent
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06-21-2006, 04:49 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 893
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by twiTTy When being forced towards the end of the strip, I have heard that a few foilists hit the floor going off target to gain distance from the edge. Any thoughts? | What Morion said...
On a grounded strip, it won't generate an off target.
If you hit off of the grounded strip or intentionally hit the floor on a non-grounded strip, it's a group 2 red card.
Even if you make it look accidental, it stops the action, but you gain no ground. The referee will put you roughly where you were when you hit off target.
Finally, um, don't be "forced" anywhere on the strip. If you move back, you move back because you choose to do so. That might be a good idea, if you're opponent is attacking with right-of-way, but he still doesn't force you back. You pull distance and draw him in. | 
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06-21-2006, 04:50 PM
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#6 | | Scrub
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Miami
Posts: 2,453
| So we're all agreed, don't do this. Or do it in the full awareness that you're cheating, and expect the consequences. | |
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06-21-2006, 11:13 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: singapore
Posts: 416
| Everyone has been in the situation where you are being forced to the end of the piste.
What do you do then?
Go super defensive and hold your ground?
Go on the offensive?
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06-21-2006, 11:29 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Haydenville, MA
Posts: 1,558
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by WhipLash Everyone has been in the situation where you are being forced to the end of the piste.
What do you do then?
Go super defensive and hold your ground?
Go on the offensive? | I usually end up doing that thing where my front foot is extended forward, and my back leg is bent with me leaning backwards as I desperately try to parry. | |
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06-21-2006, 11:45 PM
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#9 | | Member
Join Date: May 2006 Location: oregon
Posts: 51
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by prototoast I usually end up doing that thing where my front foot is extended forward, and my back leg is bent with me leaning backwards as I desperately try to parry. | the reverse lunge... I'm all too familiar with that one... 
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06-22-2006, 01:58 AM
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#10 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,884
| anti-lunge seems more appropriate, given the name is already taken. | |
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06-22-2006, 03:00 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: North attleboro, MA
Posts: 1,807
| I like to lean back really far and see if I can hit people on the wrist while matrixing out of the way.
It works surprisingly well which is equal parts funny and sad.
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06-22-2006, 03:06 AM
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#12 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,380
| I fenced a foil fencer last weekend, who would retreat to the back line, then do a sudden squat on his back leg when you made your final attack--luckily, I was making a head cut, and I just let the blade follow him down. It was impressively acrobatic though--my knees wouldn't stand for it.
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06-22-2006, 05:06 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 137
| Being at the end of the strip doesn't mean you are dead.
The opponent KNOWS that you are at the end of the strip so they EXPECT that you have to make your decision when they get into range of hitting you. They also EXPECT that some people will panic or make a hasty fight-or-flight attack when backed into a corner.
You have a lot of options: (this is not EVERYTHING you can do).
1. False attack + a defensive action
2. False attack + counter-attack (or remise) and evasion
3. Lateral motion on the strip (with your feet).
4. Invitation of the target + counter-attack
5. False-parry + parry-riposte.
6. Point in line + derobement
Basically you have to find a way to control some part of the action, then use that as an opening or as part of a 2nd intention action.
What do I do at the end of the strip?: I pull distance. | |
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06-22-2006, 09:30 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: my fencing club
Posts: 876
| i end up at the end of the strip alot, but thats usually when i score.
i use a basic parry riposte to score, or beat attack - cuz its so simple that people dont expect it. sometimes i end up trying to do a "matrix" like someone said. usually not succesful 
also, when i know im close but dont want to risk getting run of the strip and into a wall (humiliating and painful) i just keep my front foot planted so i know im still on the strip.
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06-22-2006, 09:39 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Beaverton, OR, USA
Posts: 1,484
| As the distance to the end of the strip decreases, the patience of the pushing fencer also tends to decrease, which means the false-counterattack or false-parry will have a greater chance of drawing the final movement of the attack.
To answer the original question: to interrupt a march, there's no reason to hit the floor, when you can just hit your opponent off-target. But there's no reason to do that under new timings -- might as well just counterattack, because the odds of success are fairly high.
darius | |
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06-23-2006, 03:01 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 659
| If you execute a 'beat-go' or simply beat the blade of your opponent, they are forced to act. You have removed their right-of-way. | |
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06-23-2006, 06:54 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athos FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,246
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by tbryan If you hit off of the grounded strip or intentionally hit the floor on a non-grounded strip, it's a group 2 red card. | Intentionally hitting a grounded strip (for whatever purpose) is also not allowed.
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06-24-2006, 12:03 AM
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#18 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United States
Posts: 14
| to answear your question about wat to do at the end of the strip i found something that works most of the time. I do a couple of fake parries then hesitate like your just waiting then as soon as he reacts parry flesh. works for epee at least
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why lunge when you can just flick...?
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06-24-2006, 12:25 AM
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#19 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,046
| What to do in epee has very little to do with tactics for saber or foil. The RoW issue for saber and foil really makes the game quite different compared to epee.
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06-24-2006, 12:49 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fresno, California
Posts: 2,092
| A lot of times what works (saber) for me, providing it's used sparingly, is as your retreating, suddenly stick out your arm. But don't follow through on the cut quickly, do it with a lag. Almost always (especially if the person your fencing has never encountered it) the change from extremely fast retreating to a lagging counter-attack will confuse them into parrying too quickly instead of finishing the attack, at which point you simply change lines and cut them. Hard to explain... but it works for me anyways...
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