Snide remarks after bout

[HDG]

So last weekend I had just won a pool bout quite handily and while shaking hands , my oppponent -- whom I just trounced -- grumbled sotto voce something to the effect that I should try a little point control next time. Needless to say I was pi--ed and a bewildered that this person was lecturing me. I'm not great, but it was a clean, quick bout. I just replied with as polite a "thanks" as I could manage.

Has anybody else gotten (or given) this kind of behavior? I'd like to believe that it would be punished if the ref heard.

[keropie]

Yeah, I might like to believe it, but really, I don't. I'd imagine too many officials just shrugging it off. Now, I might well put the individual on my own list of people who suck, but that's just me. Or I might turn the other cheek (in the biblical way, not the lunar way) and just assume he's having a bad day, crappy marriage, whatever.

The last time something similar happened to me was my first national event (some DIVIII NAC or something), where I improved my seed from before pools (bottom 10%) to 3rd after pools. Everyone in my part of the bracket was really nice, and we'd chat while waiting for bouts, and just be cool in general, but then some guy (like the round of 16 or 32 or something?) just was real stand offish (no biggie), but kinda a jerk. Now, I figured at some point it would be a challenge, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt as to being a 'good fencer.' He scored like 3 touches right off, and I got pissed at myself, cause he wasn't all that good. Final score: 15-5, he loses. Still wouldn't talk to me And the rest of the bout (after the first 3 touches) consisted of the amazing variety of actions such as: invitation, parry 1st, hit him in the back, and invitation, parry 1st, hit him in the stomache. And then there was... uh, wait, nope, that was it. He did piss me off lol (probably why I remember it so well )

[erooMynohtnA]

Every now and again you'll encounter a bad sport. You just have to bear with it the whole two seconds it affects you.

At least he wasn't very good. I'd feel much worse if someone who just trounced me said I should try a little point control than if it was someone I just wailed on.

You could just wait for him in the parking lot and challenge him to engage in the art of fisticuffs. Teach him sportsmanship the hard way.

[Mr Epee]

Welcome to the reason why most quality fencers don't participate on F.net.

This really isn't something that the ref can/should control.

Wait until you smack someone 5-0 and they approach you and ask why you chose to use a Northern Italian style instead of the Spanish style which would have been SO much more appropriate.

This is the problem of a sport where you can be quite talented and still expect to compete against people who can't even hold the weapon properly -just because they paid the entry fee.

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by keropie

invitation, parry 1st, hit him in the back, and invitation, parry 1st, hit him in the stomache. And then there was... uh, wait, nope, that was it. He did piss me off lol (probably why I remember it so well )

My twin, separated at birth... lol

This is exactly how I fence people who aren't very good that I just want to mangle.

[Feltan]

Given that most people you interact with in this sport are gracious and polite, I find it quite easy to simply ignore the odd rudeness that occasionaly crops up. In those instances, I choose to think of the person as an otherwise fine person who is simply having a bad day.

Of course there are the bad apples. For them, my response to a blatently rude remark after a bout is quite simple: "Sir, the score speaks for itself."

Regards,
Feltan

[sabreur]

Cut off their heads and hang them by the hair from your belt.

That will dissuade others from being rude.

A more practical and less homicidal solution was proposed by Jack Barnaby, the Harvard squash coach for about a millenium:

When faced with a rude opponent, smile at them. The ruder they are, the more broadly you should smile.

Drives them nuts.

As does beating them soundly.

I had a bout with a rather rude woman this weekend--after a somewhat convoluted touch, which I won by getting her to do what I wanted, she muttered under her breath, "A man who has to win everything!" I thought to myself, "No, I just have to beat you," and proceeded to do so, about 5-1, I think....

Although I agree with Feltan--in general, fencers tend to be quite well-behaved and pleasant. Makes the nasty ones all the worse.

[big daddy]

I so love trash talk . There's nothing like haveing someone you've beaten tell you "you suck". I student of mine was told during a final "you're next". As my student proceeded to defeate this person 14- 5 the fencer's coach yelled " don't worry she's getting tired" Upon hearing this my student jumped up and did a sisssor kick . Then she attacked on the other girls prep winning the bout. Talk is always cheap.

[Allen Evans]

When I was young, a very tough "A" from California use to visit my club on a regular basis in Seattle. I lost to him every single time we fenced, and as we shook hands, I vowed retribution with a newer, more clever bag of tricks the next time we fenced.

He always smiled, made an apologetic shrug, and in a thick accent said: "Maybe next time".

I never did beat him.

[RebelFencer]

Can't say I've ever had that problem either way.

[Tomas N]

Probably a combination of him losing badly and you hitting him on some perfectly valid target area that caused him some minor discomfort led to the remark. Some people just get grouchy when they lose.

Tomas

[rac]

My experience is as a father of a young fencer. In the last few years as my child has started to advance she is fighting adults and it sometimes brings out the worst. The most flagrant example I remember is an older large woman in the semi-final DE's at a small tournament. She fell behind and started to whip my daughter in the lower legs after being scored upon until she was warned by the director. Then at the end of the bout the nearly broke my daughters hand with the "shake". We had to have her ice it so she could continue to the next bout. I probably would have taken this up with her but my daughter kept it to herself until much later and the woman had left.

On the plus side the VAST MAJORITY of the folks she fences actually are wonderful in victory and defeat!

RAC

[grotto]

Originally Posted by rac

My experience is as a father of a young fencer. In the last few years as my child has started to advance she is fighting adults and it sometimes brings out the worst. The most flagrant example I remember is an older large woman in the semi-final DE's at a small tournament. She fell behind and started to whip my daughter in the lower legs after being scored upon until she was warned by the director. Then at the end of the bout the nearly broke my daughters hand with the "shake". We had to have her ice it so she could continue to the next bout. I probably would have taken this up with her but my daughter kept it to herself until much later and the woman had left.

On the plus side the VAST MAJORITY of the folks she fences actually are wonderful in victory and defeat!

RAC

Another reason I tell my fencers to always shake hands with the off hand.....

[Craig]

I've been on the receiving end of the snide remark. Nothing for a ref to deal with. That's just a sore loser or someone who had a bad bout/day for you.



Craig

[annacattiva]

I haven't really had much trouble with snide remarks. There are always the people who won't look at you when they shake hands, or who are already looking away as they unwilling proffer their limp handshake. I once ran into a girl whom I had seen do this to two teammates already, so when she stuck out her hand, already turning around, I grabbed it and held on so that she was jerked back around to look at me. As soon as she looked at me, I thanked her and let go.

The only remark that comes to mind was actually not from a fencer, but from a teammate of my opponent who had been keeping score. Must have been my third year of fencing, and I was fencing a girl in my division who was very good. I think it might actually have been a team event; I seem to recall that I needed to get about 5 points and she needed to get about 15. And it was the ninth bout. And she won, although I don't think anyone was surprised. We shook hands, shook hands with the rest of the team, and then as I went to sign the scoresheet, the young pup teammate (another weapon, and male) handed me the scoresheet and informed me snottily, "Don't worry, she's really good." It sounds pretty innocuous, really, but in the context, it was laughably pretentious and condescending.

Anna

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Yeah, its happened to me.

Get over it.

[seven6ty]

I got to experience a darned good one once:

At the NCAA Western Championships, it was my last year in the NCAA's and I think I was the only one left on the team with any real previous fencing experience, so all year long I remember having to teach the 2nd or 3rd guy on the team how to fence. He was a big guy, probably about 6'3 or so, and fairly stocky, although not really exceptionally thick or anything, just solidly buildt. So, we're fencing one of our team matches against Standford. Anyways, it was obvious this second guy on my team didn't really like any of them. After one of them was beating up on him pretty badly, following a touch the Stanford guy got, after pushing my guy down to our end of the strip and scoring, my friend followed him back to the en guard line and raise his epee in the air and conked the guy on the back of the head/mask with the forte of his blade. Lol, it was pretty damned obvious and intentional, and I had to run over and apologize to the other team about it all and I had to remove the guy from the tournament. It was pretty embarassing, and he had already been acting up a little bit earlier on, although definently not that extreme.

Anyways, he seemed to have forgone the "snide remarks" bit, and just got straight to the physical assaulting part of it, lol.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by seven6ty

I got to experience a darned good one once:

At the NCAA Western Championships, it was my last year in the NCAA's and I think I was the only one left on the team with any real previous fencing experience, so all year long I remember having to teach the 2nd or 3rd guy on the team how to fence. He was a big guy, probably about 6'3 or so, and fairly stocky, although not really exceptionally thick or anything, just solidly buildt. So, we're fencing one of our team matches against Standford. Anyways, it was obvious this second guy on my team didn't really like any of them. After one of them was beating up on him pretty badly, following a touch the Stanford guy got, after pushing my guy down to our end of the strip and scoring, my friend followed him back to the en guard line and raise his epee in the air and conked the guy on the back of the head/mask with the forte of his blade. Lol, it was pretty damned obvious and intentional, and I had to run over and apologize to the other team about it all and I had to remove the guy from the tournament. It was pretty embarassing, and he had already been acting up a little bit earlier on, although definently not that extreme.

Anyways, he seemed to have forgone the "snide remarks" bit, and just got straight to the physical assaulting part of it, lol.

Well that certainly puts my whining in perspective.

[bousquet]

I might make a remark to a wild or unnecessarily heavy hitter. I recently made a remark to a young fencer to watch his point control after he hit me really hard in the adams apple twice during a practice bout. While a legal target area, I'd never specifically target a fencer's throat. Just too dangerous, and if I hit that area by accident, I quickly apologize.

[Goofy]

Originally Posted by annacattiva

I haven't really had much trouble with snide remarks. There are always the people who won't look at you when they shake hands, or who are already looking away as they unwilling proffer their limp handshake. I once ran into a girl whom I had seen do this to two teammates already, so when she stuck out her hand, already turning around, I grabbed it and held on so that she was jerked back around to look at me. As soon as she looked at me, I thanked her and let go.

In addition to letting snide remarks pass, one shouldn't get too out of sorts about this type of behavior either. Don't forget that the handshake after the match is actually made because of the regulations, not because of politeness or respect, and as a result there will be a small percentage of competitors who will not handshake properly. Thankfully, the majority will handshake politely and properly.