06-20-2006, 06:56 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 284
| Restrict Cadet and Junior NACs to "E" and Above Only
Why not make Cadet and Junior fencers have at least an "E" before being allowed to enter their NACs? This wouldn't be fair to the Y10 through Y14 groups, but by the time a fencer is a Cadet, some minimal proficiency should be demonstrated before direct access into a national level event. I am sure even in the most fencing-deprived areas of the country, there are enough open events, or minimum C1 (for age-resricted Cadet events only) for an "E" to be earned. There are ideas being put forth for ways to control size and quality of NACs, so let's be prepared. I am not talking about JOs yet--let the "U"s fence in the qualies and see what happens. Of course they can also fence Div2/3 anyway, as most already are. | 
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06-20-2006, 07:07 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,268
| Because it wouldn't actually DO anything...
It's like trying to cut Cs out of Div I to reduce numbers, when there are 120 As in the competition. Pointless. | |
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06-20-2006, 07:20 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,466
| If the USFA wanted to take this route, they would cut out C and under.
The problem arises when you take out those fencers, you cut down on the revenue generated from these events. The USFA already loses money on NAC's because of a few things... - Shipment of equipment to the venue.
- Employee travel expenses.
- Venue day rates.
The USFA relies on summer nationals to recoup the losses from NAC's. Cutting out customers would increase the amount we need to recoup, so you would either have to suck it up, or add another event to nationals.
__________________
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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06-20-2006, 07:48 PM
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#4 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,751
| Age appropriate competition, and seperate gendered competition, are not available in many areas. Removing one of the avenues it is currently available doesn't strike me as a big improvement. NAC B is the one that's the biggest problem, I think, and I really can't speak to a good solution there without knowing more about what the entry breakdown is. | 
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06-20-2006, 08:02 PM
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#5 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
| Why not bridge the revenue gap by charging vets quadruple fees? After all, they are most likely financially stable, credit worthy and willing to win one for the Gipper, eh? | |
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06-20-2006, 08:12 PM
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#6 | | Scavenger
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,518
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Your Bane Why not bridge the revenue gap by charging vets quadruple fees? After all, they are most likely financially stable, credit worthy and willing to win one for the Gipper, eh? | Meh. We also have enough smarts and experience to start our own organization if need be.
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I never made a mistake in grammar but one in my life and as soon as I done it I seen it. -- Carl Sandburg | |
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06-20-2006, 08:27 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,466
| I would actually propose limiting youth NAC's to C and under, and then adding Open Sabre, Open Epee and Open Foil to summer nats. Make it a quick and intense event, 40% promotion out of pools, no repechage, 7 point DE's instead of 15.
__________________
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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06-21-2006, 12:10 AM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,829
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! I would actually propose limiting youth NAC's to C and under, and then adding Open Sabre, Open Epee and Open Foil to summer nats. Make it a quick and intense event, 40% promotion out of pools, no repechage, 7 point DE's instead of 15. | Many of the Y10-12 fencers earn their rating at NACs because age-limited tournaments elsewhere DO NOT earn ratings unless C1 or above. That's the ladder.
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Epee is the Sword.
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06-21-2006, 12:32 AM
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#9 | | Member
Join Date: May 2000 Location: Chicago
Posts: 46
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Soberin Why not make Cadet and Junior fencers have at least an "E" before being allowed to enter their NACs? This wouldn't be fair to the Y10 through Y14 groups, but by the time a fencer is a Cadet, some minimal proficiency should be demonstrated before direct access into a national level event. I am sure even in the most fencing-deprived areas of the country, there are enough open events, or minimum C1 (for age-resricted Cadet events only) for an "E" to be earned. There are ideas being put forth for ways to control size and quality of NACs, so let's be prepared. I am not talking about JOs yet--let the "U"s fence in the qualies and see what happens. Of course they can also fence Div2/3 anyway, as most already are. |
The USFA makes too much money in fees to do anything like that. They will have the space and plenty of mediocre refs to bang out a tournament. Come on guys, it's the USFA?!
Besides, experience rules and get it while you can. We've all been Us and all have stories about top fencers we had a chance to fence and learn from at the national level tournaments. Fencing in the big rooms makes a huge difference for the young fencers out there. Seems like a win/win to me.
matt
Last edited by MattyCam; 06-21-2006 at 12:44 AM.
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06-21-2006, 10:20 AM
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#10 | | Sr. Spirits Inspector
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Florida
Posts: 1,903
| What would you do about non-US fencers?
__________________ "Everybody’s got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." — W.C. Fields "So just read an article on the dangers of heavy drinking....
Scared the crap out of me.
So that's it!
After today, no more reading."
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati (When all else fails play dead)" — Possom Lodge Motto | |
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06-21-2006, 01:12 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 705
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by rac What would you do about non-US fencers? | The same thing that they do at Div I NACs. There are lots of Canadians and the occasional Thai or Israeli there, and I haven't noticed any extreme scrubs, so they must be doing it basically right. I don't know what that is, though.
Note also that I don't think U16/U19 should be restricted to E-and-under. The U's only take up space during the pools, and not very much of it, and they aren't very difficult to ref, and they pay lots of entry fees to fund fun things like NACs and international athletes. | |
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