06-20-2006, 07:07 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Petition against Foil and Sabre timings now in English
Last edited by Alan; 06-20-2006 at 07:14 AM.
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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06-22-2006, 03:54 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Just seen that it was signed by a former President of the FIE ?
Still waiting for His Majesty to sign it ...
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Just forget these broken foil test timings !
Use clear visor masks for fishing,
and video to film your mother-in-law.
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06-22-2006, 03:59 AM
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#3 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,916
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Alan Just seen that it was signed by a former President of the FIE ?
Still waiting for His Majesty to sign it ... | Is that verifiable? What I mean to say is what's keeping me from signing Rene Roch? Or Jesus of Nazereth for that matter? | |
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06-22-2006, 05:33 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA Is that verifiable? What I mean to say is what's keeping me from signing Rene Roch? Or Jesus of Nazereth for that matter? | Why don't you ask him ?
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Just forget these broken foil test timings !
Use clear visor masks for fishing,
and video to film your mother-in-law.
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06-22-2006, 06:09 AM
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#5 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,916
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Originally Posted by Alan Why don't you ask him ? | Ask whom? | |
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06-22-2006, 10:42 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA Ask whom? |
The former FIE President who signed the petition. | |
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06-22-2006, 11:30 AM
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#7 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,916
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Alan The former FIE President who signed the petition. | I don't have his number, and I don't speak French. | |
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06-22-2006, 12:03 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA I don't have his number, and I don't speak French. |
Send him an email. He must speak English.
See the contact link : http://www.plongeeonline.com/annuaires.php?id=3139 | |
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06-24-2006, 07:01 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 359
| Man, give it up already. It's too late, everyone has accepted the new timings, they aren't broken and valid hits don't fail to register. It's ooooovah | |
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06-24-2006, 07:56 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,238
| Hmmm... 'Everyone' has accepted the new timings appears to be a flawed statement. Additionally, I have no issues with Alan or anyone else protesting what they see to be a problem (with fencing or anything else in that matter). If he were to claim that all fencing now is worthless that would be one thing, but he (and those who wrote the petition) claim that fencing was better under the old timings and would still be better under the old timings. If they currently fence and/or teach, I'm sure they have adapted to reality.
And I personally hope that it's NOT over. I hope that the timing receives both careful thought and is changed to something more like what it used to be. Particularly in light of the flick coming back, it seems that the new timing has very few actual benefits. If people can flick, but there is a percentage of straight hits that aren't hitting, what have we really gained? And I hope Roche dies in his sleep tonight (well, that might be a bit extreme, but I do hope his connection with the FIE dies tonight). Will I continue to fence under the current timings? Yes. Has my game adapted to them? Yes. Would I be happier if the timing was switched back? Yes.
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06-24-2006, 08:07 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 359
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Originally Posted by keropie there is a percentage of straight hits that aren't hitting | Warning: This is not really directed towards you, but just everyone who makes this statement, especially those who say it happens numerous times in single bouts.
Seriously, show me! I have been hearing this for two years and I have yet to see it. This year I have done NACS, a world cup, Canadian CSC's+Nationals and a bunch of local events and I have not seen this happen once all year; at least not a single time that couldn't be blamed on crappy hand position or poor tip placement. Actually come to think of it I did hear of a lot of people complaining about valid hits not registering, but it was at a local event and the people who I heard complaining suck and are just looking for excuses to blame their lack of tip control on. I have 2 DVD's of world cups with the new timing, and neither of them contain a single instance of this. Floating around the net are videos from the GP in La Coruna, not a single time in those either. On fencingchannel.tv there are the World Championships for Junior+Cadet, MF and WF, don't see it once. The CIP bout between Kleibrink and Bissdorf, not a single time. People are going as far as to say it happens several times in a bout, and I would love to see some proof of this.
Rant over. Sorry, but it bugs me. And you're right about the petition thing, they do have a right to do it and I jumped the gun. My bad. | |
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06-24-2006, 08:28 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hoboken, NJ and Worcester, MA
Posts: 280
| Actually, I really really like the new timings.
Nevermind the fact that I'm an epee that decided to fence foil for my last year of high school competition (the first year the new timings were introduced to NJSIAA fencing). I shudder to think how much worse I could have done if I was fencing real foil  | |
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06-24-2006, 08:29 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,466
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Miglin Nevermind the fact that I'm an epee that decided to fence foil for my last year of high school competition (the first year the new timings were introduced to NJSIAA fencing). | A talking epee?
Purple butt****ing turtles.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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06-24-2006, 09:47 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,238
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Originally Posted by dramamine Seriously, show me! I have been hearing this for two years and I have yet to see it. <snip> not a single time that couldn't be blamed on crappy hand position or poor tip placement.<snip> And you're right about the petition thing, they do have a right to do it and I jumped the gun. My bad. | Part 1: I'll agree that it doesn't happy multiple times in bouts unless one of the fencer's just hasn't adapted at all. But it does happen to people at times that I would say are not their fault.
Part 2: I guess it depends on how bad it has to be to count as crappy hand placement or poor tip placement. I haven't seen a hit yet that couldn't have gone off with different technique. That, however, is not a sufficient defense of the timing to me. A 'normal' hit should set off the light 99.9+% of the time in all situations. I don't think that's the current case. Don't get me wrong, with correct adaptation of technique, the touches not registering issue is minimized, but not corrected.
Part 3: (and I mean this very seriously, I don't intend to be patronizing or anything) It takes a big person to admit to a mistake 
Yeah, I agree that anyone who says that it happens multiple times in most bouts simply hasn't adapted. But it does happen on occasion, which it really didn't on the old timing. Alas.
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06-24-2006, 09:50 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,344
| I think we should start a poll, to see whether or not people's opinions have changed over the last two years.
I'll make one right now... | 
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06-24-2006, 10:04 PM
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#16 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,371
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by dramamine Warning: This is not really directed towards you, but just everyone who makes this statement, especially those who say it happens numerous times in single bouts.
Seriously, show me! I have been hearing this for two years and I have yet to see it. This year I have done NACS, a world cup, Canadian CSC's+Nationals and a bunch of local events and I have not seen this happen once all year; at least not a single time that couldn't be blamed on crappy hand position or poor tip placement. Actually come to think of it I did hear of a lot of people complaining about valid hits not registering, but it was at a local event and the people who I heard complaining suck and are just looking for excuses to blame their lack of tip control on. I have 2 DVD's of world cups with the new timing, and neither of them contain a single instance of this. Floating around the net are videos from the GP in La Coruna, not a single time in those either. On fencingchannel.tv there are the World Championships for Junior+Cadet, MF and WF, don't see it once. The CIP bout between Kleibrink and Bissdorf, not a single time. People are going as far as to say it happens several times in a bout, and I would love to see some proof of this.
Rant over. Sorry, but it bugs me. And you're right about the petition thing, they do have a right to do it and I jumped the gun. My bad. | When this was first being tested by SEMI, the result that any timing over 10ms would cause some straight attacks not registering. They recomended no more than 10ms.
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To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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06-24-2006, 11:37 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athos FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,242
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Originally Posted by dramamine Seriously, show me! I have been hearing this for two years and I have yet to see it... | Hey, I'm so happy for you! But I've seen it plenty of times. I've seen it as a spectator, as the fencer to whom it occured, and as the fencer who benefited from it. And I've seen it happen multiple times in a bout. I once had a 15 touch bout where 3 of my direct hits didnt register. That's 20%, and that's a huge disadvantage when you lose 3 touches and as a result your opponent gains 3 touches.
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"I don't mind being the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn't this one." - Ozymandias
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06-24-2006, 11:40 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athos FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,242
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Originally Posted by keropie ...Yeah, I agree that anyone who says that it happens multiple times in most bouts simply hasn't adapted. | LOL... and how do you propose to adapt? Stop doing direct attacks? I'll get right on it.
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"I don't mind being the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn't this one." - Ozymandias
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06-24-2006, 11:45 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,238
| Well, if it's really happening on average more than once per bout, I'd say you should probably look into adjusting your hand technique. More relaxation through the fingers, and as counter-intuitive as it is, right as the hit is made, relax your arm somewhat too. If it happens more than once in one particular bout, it could be technical, technological (bad tip tape or somesuch), or your opponent (being a skinny guy who closes a lot or something).
Though, to be honest, my biggest adaptation was removing (mostly) the high energy direct actions from my game. I'll still attack, but differently, and with less of an extension, and I rely more on remises, counterattacks, and ripostes now (two of which, of course, are contrary to the nature of foil, which is still my biggest philosophical problem with the timings).
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06-25-2006, 03:01 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 359
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by OROD LOL... and how do you propose to adapt? Stop doing direct attacks? I'll get right on it.
. | I am not trying to be disputatious I am just wondering, what is your rating/approximate ranking? | |
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