Who Needs Y10s at Summer Nationals?

[Soberin]

Pros and cons please.

[bunbury]

Who needs Women's Sabre?

[KD5MDK]

Where else are fencers 10 years of age and under going to find competitors they haven't fenced before, high quality referees and organizers, lots of fencing (pools and DEs) and the opportunity to compete in their own event while in the same trip watching parents, siblings and friends compete in the toughest competitions in the country, in the same place?

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by bunbury

Who needs Women's Sabre?

The US, if it wants to keep collecting international gold medals at the current rate.

[Soberin]

All good points. However, one could also argue that with the institutionalization of the SYC events Y10 fencers have other opportunities to fence kids from around the country. Also, as the SN become larger, the space given to Y10 events may be put to better use for older age groups. I doubt there have been many serious and talented Y10 fencers who suffered because their first SN was at Y12.

[bunbury]

I fenced Y10 SN when I was 9. Difference between 9 and 13 is pretty big there, bo (yes, a 13 year old in Y12).

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Coaches.

[mrbiggs]

Ten year olds.


Duh.

[eac]

Y10 competition is vastly the best way to start fencing. There is no other place in which everybody else is as evenly (in)experienced and of mostly the same size-- yet you get introduced to the hard training for Nationals long before fencers in other countries do. I think our Y10ness has contributed significantly to our strong junior international results.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

For kids with a fair bit of exposure to fencing, Y10 at Summer Nats is a great way to be introduced to the macro version of the sport. Our kids were quite captivated by the spectacle of hundreds of fencers, all in the same room, all competing.

It gave them a much better appreciation of what the sport might have to offer, beyond fencing the same five kids over and over in narrow room built on the side of a plumbing supply warehouse.

Should a nine year old with six weeks in a parks & rec class go to Summer Nats? Perhaps not. But it's a pretty cool experience for kids who are ready for some full speed competition.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Soberin

All good points. However, one could also argue that with the institutionalization of the SYC events Y10 fencers have other opportunities to fence kids from around the country. Also, as the SN become larger, the space given to Y10 events may be put to better use for older age groups. I doubt there have been many serious and talented Y10 fencers who suffered because their first SN was at Y12.

There are 288 Y10 entries out of nearly 7000 total (including teams and Chair). I don't think the presence of Y10 is putting a substantial strain on Summer Nationals. If you really want to trim it down, eliminate Div 3 and make all of those fencers fence Div 2 instead.

Also, the SYCs currently do not present a proper "National Tournament Experience" comperable to a NAC or Summer Nationals, and again don't offer the "fence alongside family members in their top events" feature.

[passata_sotto]

My son just won the gold medal in Y10 at the Utah Summer Games and is as excited about Nationals as anyone at any age group. There is not a large group of fencers his age and he fences with the same people over and over within Utah and Idaho. This will give him a great opportunity to meet others who share a common interest - (or as with him obsession

If you relegate the younger fencers to only RYCs or the one National event they are allowed to attend besides Nationals, then they really do not see the big picture of fencing. Nationals do several things for younger fencers: shows them that fencing can be a lifetime sport, shows them where they can be in few years with hard work, and provides them with rewards for now.

[chefencer]

If you want a taller pyramid with a big tippy top point, you have to have a Wider Base and you build a wider base by affording it the opportunity to have a blast and be part of a huge event thereby growing enthusiastic Fencing Families that contribute time and money to the sport far beyond the wildest fantasies of the ubiquitous collegiate pauper fencer...

[AaronK]

I love the fact that more kids are fencing now in the US than ever before. I only fear that the priorities of parents & coaches may shift away from (if it hasn't already) providing a positive enviornment for the children to grow and into a highly competitive (and results-orientd) enviornment.
If someone were weighing the pros & cons of Y10 events then I think we should ask ourselves:
1. What is the mission of the Summer National Championship?
2. Does that mission serve the needs of a Y10 fencer?
I am glad that people have posted in favor of Y10 events and have had a positive experience on the whole. I am seeing a trend toward a level of competitiveness in Y-level fencing (meaning younger than Cadet), that can end up loosing us members in the long-term.
For evey reason that people are defending Y10 events at Summer Nationals, would they also defend a Y10 event at a World Cup or World Championship?
I don't think that a "wider base" means that a kid should have to travel 500+ miles in order to find others with a like interest. [Though people not long ago people were arguing AGAINST regionalization- for longer traveling- because they felt that the "grass roots" were not deep enough to promote new fencing in their region]. I would be interested in knowing if countries abroad have similar age categories at their national championship events- and their views on a Y10 national championship.

[annacattiva]

I sort of agree with AaronK. It's great that kids are fencing. But I think it's getting to be a little too competitive (and not just the kids- I know there are wonderful supportive parents out there, but there are also some uber-competitive bastards and Y-10 is a great place to start). A lot of coaches whom I respect think that the best thing to do is let kids play around. Teach them some good fencing, have some local (or regional) competitions, and don't worry about it.

It actually frightens me a bit that people think that there should be Nationals for 10-year-olds. I mean, sorry, but they're 10! As far as building up talent in fencing, in the next 6-8 years their bodies will change so much that they'll have to relearn half of life (including quite a bit of fencing). As far as them enjoying it, I'm not so convinced that kids enjoy it so much more to travel across a continent and fence random other kids than to go down the road to a local or regional competition and fence random other kids.

I started _fencing_ when I was 18. I'm not going to be an Olympian. But I don't think that would be different if I had begun fencing and competing when I was 10. This is just a personal comment. I realize that my experience doesn't constitute a reason not to have Y-10.

Anna

[mlr2fence]

Suggestion before forming an opinion: Watch some of the Y10 events in Atlanta. See how many out of control parents (and kids) there are(or are not), who view winning as a life and death matter (parents berating their child for losing, not supporting them; temper tantrums, kids crying, etc) and see then if this is an image we want to project of our "national level" competitors, many of whom I doubt would continue in the sport after such a tough start to make an impact on the international level. Maybe instead we'll see wonderful, nurturing parents and coaches with kids that develop a lifelong interest in fencing!

[IHateMrPotatohead]

Why does it bother you that Y10's have events at Summer Nationals? What's the big deal? The kids deserve their time on the medal stand too.....

[NNR]

My daughter began her competitive career at a Y-10 event at summer nationals. And although at the time I though I should have my head examined for taking her, the time spent in Y-10 proved useful - it gave her a chance to compete, get used to the chaos of a national competition etc...with really nothing on the line. I think those very early years of no risk competition served her well.

[Peach]

We took our daughter to her first national event when she was around that age, and though I'm not (and wasn't then) sure it was such a good idea, she seemed to think it was reasonable. Oddly enough, kids handle losing, crying, and getting hit in general a lot better than their parents do. I'm not so sure it's good for kids to win national events of any sort at that age, though -- that way lies mask-flinging, tantrums, sulking, obnoxious behavior, and black cards when they inevitably lose at some later date.

The main function of national events at that age seems to be the awwwww factor. Look, how cute, and look how wonderful a parent I am! It feeds the hormonal megalomania of the early-stage parent, at that stage when you feel you must justify having lost all your personal life to parenthood and when you still have some vestiges of control over your child. But then I have taught kids from 4 to 14, and dealt with their parents, so perhaps I am unnecessarily cynical.

[remise]

My son was a late bloomer....he began fencing at aged 7, but wasn't the least bit interested in Nationals (or any other large event, for that matter) until he was around 14. Once he made up his mind to compete, and compete seriously, he earned a rating and began climbing in his rating. I don't believe in pushing a child if they're not ready, as I have witnessed at the J.O.'s and Nationals, but if a 10 year old wants to try it, let them.