Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

4qtrs · 06-18-2006, 03:17 PM

I am looking for information on the Engarde software for tournaments. If you use it can you tell me what you like about it?

Suzy

downunder · 06-18-2006, 03:27 PM

www.fie.ch

tools>software

4qtrs · 06-18-2006, 03:36 PM

Thanks, I did finally find it. Do you use it?

downunder · 06-18-2006, 03:48 PM

yeah. Its the best software out there in my opinion. Some other are better for US organisers due to online integration, but there is a reason why the majority of world competitions use engarde.

peet · 06-18-2006, 04:01 PM

I believe one of the reasons that many people around the world use Engarde is because they are used to seeing it at FIE events, where its use is (I think) required.

4qtrs: Where are you located? If you are in the USA, I'd recommend you at least check out Fencing Time: http://fencingtime.com

It's designed specifically for US/USFA competition, and so makes a lot of things easier to do than Engarde, only because it runs according to the US rules (like for seeding & such).

I also happen to think the interface is a lot more user-friendly (it looks just like the paper forms most folks are used to).

In the end of course, it's up to you what software will serve your needs best.

cheers-

[disclosure]
I run a website that is partners with Fencing Time
[/disclosure]

-p

downunder · 06-18-2006, 04:40 PM

The concept of actually paying for a program for running fencing competitions is a new one for me.

Engarde does the appropriate input/output of xml files that the fie use for their competitions, which is why it is almost exclusively used. I don't think there is any reason why another program could not be used if it worked as perfectly as engarde in that regard. (the results system that you upload the files to on the fie website will reject it if its not exactly right in terms of what should be there).

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

I believe one of the reasons that many people around the world use Engarde is because they are used to seeing it at FIE events, where its use is (I think) required.

4qtrs: Where are you located? If you are in the USA, I'd recommend you at least check out Fencing Time: http://fencingtime.com

It's designed specifically for US/USFA competition, and so makes a lot of things easier to do than Engarde, only because it runs according to the US rules (like for seeding & such).

I also happen to think the interface is a lot more user-friendly (it looks just like the paper forms most folks are used to).

In the end of course, it's up to you what software will serve your needs best.

cheers-

[disclosure]
I run a website that is partners with Fencing Time
[/disclosure]

-p

4qtrs · 06-18-2006, 04:53 PM

I am in Southern California. Currently we have been using Point Control for our local tournaments However, it was painful to use during qualifiers trying to figure in National Points and it doesn't retain competitors.

I understand that Fencing Time is easy to use, but I also understand that it doesn't randomize the pools.

I have run xseed before, but you have to really know the ends and outs of that software to weild it.

Do either of you know anything about Planche from Germany.

peet · 06-18-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

The concept of actually paying for a program for running fencing competitions is a new one for me.

Yeah, it's true that Fencing Time is not free. That said, I know of no FT users who regretted paying the $50. There is a free trial, but it's just a trial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

Engarde does the appropriate input/output of xml files that the fie use for their competitions, which is why it is almost exclusively used. I don't think there is any reason why another program could not be used if it worked as perfectly as engarde in that regard. (the results system that you upload the files to on the fie website will reject it if its not exactly right in terms of what should be there).

Exactly; which is why I get the impression Engarde is required for FIE events, and why I asked 4qtrs where she is from. If the US, not running FIE events, then she might want to consider FT.

cheers-

-p

peet · 06-18-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

I understand that Fencing Time is easy to use, but I also understand that it doesn't randomize the pools.

Sure it does (if i understand what you mean by "randomize"). You mean that equally rated fencers should be seeded randomly within their rating/year? FT does that. Also, there are a number seeding policies that can be turned on/off in FT (e.g. minimize team conflicts, teammate bout order, top seed gets the big pool, etc...). You can also just manually drag fencers up & down the seeding if you need to for whatever reason.

You might try the free trial and see how it does things. I'm not going to be the true authority on how it works. That would be Dan, the developer: dan@fencingtime.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

I have run xseed before, but you have to really know the ends and outs of that software to weild it.

Yeah Xseed pretty much defines the idea of "powerful but user-unfriendly" (IMHO).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

Do either of you know anything about Planche from Germany.

Sorry, no experience with that one.

Good luck with your search for software. I hope my info is of help.

Of course, I can't really be expected not to also suggest that you check out that website down there in my sig...

cheers!

-P

4qtrs · 06-18-2006, 05:16 PM

Thanks Guys for all the info.

That is good to hear about fencing time! I will check into the demo and see if I can toggle the settings.

I have also downloaded a US version of Engarde from Prise de Fer fencing. It looks interesting (but it may not be easily teachable to others).

Thanks again.

downunder · 06-18-2006, 05:17 PM

for english, get the language packs off www.fie.ch

you might not get the up to date version off other websites etc.

dberke · 06-18-2006, 08:15 PM

First, a dislcaimer - I'm the guy who wrote Fencing Time and sells it. With that said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

I am in Southern California. Currently we have been using Point Control for our local tournaments However, it was painful to use during qualifiers trying to figure in National Points and it doesn't retain competitors.

Fencing Time supports seeding using ratings, national points, or a combination of the two. All of the seeding formats used by the USFA are supported.

Fencing Time also maintains a full database of clubs and fencers so that you don't need to re-enter all of their information each time. As far as I know, none of the other programs do that - you need to re-enter all of their data each time.

If you're in Southern CA, I encourage you to talk to the tournament organizers in your area. Many of them have been using Fencing Time for some time now and can provide you with feedback from those most familiar with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

I understand that Fencing Time is easy to use, but I also understand that it doesn't randomize the pools.

That's not the case - FT has an option to randomize the competitors in each pool, as well as numerous options on how to lay out the pools. You can also manually edit things in case you need to make any other changes to the genrated pools.

If you have any other questions on Fencing Time, feel free to ask. And if there's something you'd like it to do that it doesn't currently, let me know - I'm constantly improving the program and adding features.

Dan

oiuyt · 06-18-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

Sure it does (if i understand what you mean by "randomize"). You mean that equally rated fencers should be seeded randomly within their rating/year?

This is not what I would take "randomize the pools" to mean in this context. Rather I assume that 4qtrs is refering to the order of competitors within a pool. Once fencers have been assigned to a pool their order within the pool (barring clubmates) should be random.

-B

dberke · 06-18-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

The concept of actually paying for a program for running fencing competitions is a new one for me.

I think you're in the minority there... there are over 200 clubs/divisions/sections in the US that paid for Fencing Time and are actively using it. I've never been told that $50 is an unreasonable price. In fact, numerous people have told me that I should be selling it for a much higher price given the amount of time it has saved them.

Also, I don't quite understand why paying for fencing software would be any different than paying for a word processor, spreadsheet program, or video game? Or should those all be free too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

Engarde does the appropriate input/output of xml files that the fie use for their competitions, which is why it is almost exclusively used. I don't think there is any reason why another program could not be used if it worked as perfectly as engarde in that regard. (the results system that you upload the files to on the fie website will reject it if its not exactly right in terms of what should be there).

The reason the FIE uses Engarde has nothing to do with data format - I could convert Fencing Time result data to the FIE format with little effort if there was an actual reason to do so.

The reason Engarde is used is because the FIE commissioned to have it written, and it was designed with FIE competition in mind. Since it wasn't designed to run USFA events (which have significantly different operating rules than FIE events regarding seeding and formats), it takes some effort to make it correctly conform to USFA rules. On the other hand, Fencing Time was designed from day one to be used for local/regional USFA events and does a far superior job at that. To be fair, I wouldn't recommend using Fencing Time for an FIE event since it doesn't follow those rules.

In short, Engarde is for a totally different market segement than Fencing Time.

Dan

4qtrs · 06-18-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

This is not what I would take "randomize the pools" to mean in this context. Rather I assume that 4qtrs is refering to the order of competitors within a pool. Once fencers have been assigned to a pool their order within the pool (barring clubmates) should be random.

-B

You are correct in your assumption, that is what I was referring to.

Suzy

dberke · 06-18-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

This is not what I would take "randomize the pools" to mean in this context. Rather I assume that 4qtrs is refering to the order of competitors within a pool. Once fencers have been assigned to a pool their order within the pool (barring clubmates) should be random.

-B

The original version of Fencing Time didn't randomize the pools as you describe, but the new version (2.0, released in January) does. It's an option that can be turned on or off as desired.

Dan

4qtrs · 06-18-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

If you're in Southern CA, I encourage you to talk to the tournament organizers in your area. Many of them have been using Fencing Time for some time now and can provide you with feedback from those most familiar with it.

Our Division tournaments have not been run with FT. We either use xSeed, Point Control, or (dare I say) paper. The PC Section runs events on FT.

Suzy

MyrddinsPrecint · 06-18-2006, 09:43 PM

The New England Division uses En Garde (I believe) exclusively. We enjoy it.

http://www.prisedefer.com/Engarde/

Phincer · 06-18-2006, 10:28 PM

I was going to write Dan a fan letter, but since this thread is up I'll do it publically.

I have been using Fencing Time for two years and got 2.0 when it came out. This weekend was the first time we used the repechage feature and it was sooooo much easier than doing it manually. Also, in the middle of two of the events we decided to fence off for third place. No problem.

We ran an A2 men's epee (with repechage), an open foil, women's epee and open saber. The foil, women's and saber events had fewer fencers (and no repechage), but the entire tournament was finished in about 9 hours. I credit Fencing Time for making it so easy to finish in a timely fashion.

DJ Apostrophe · 06-19-2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

The New England Division uses En Garde (I believe) exclusively. We enjoy it.

http://www.prisedefer.com/Engarde/

I maintain this version of Engarde.

I just made some new changes to work with peet's askFRED integration with Engarde.

Some new and fairly exciting changes will be posted to that page sometime this week.

Also, this summer I plan on spending some time re-doing the manual that is up on that page.

If you have any questions about that version of the software, please either PM or e-mail (wayne at prisedefer dot com) me.

thanks,

Wayne