06-15-2006, 06:10 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,845
| Blade Setup: Tang Bend = Lighter Feel?
Why does bending the tang make the blade feel lighter?
I imagine that everyone's noticed this, but does anyone know why?
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06-15-2006, 06:18 PM
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#2 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,931
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee Why does bending the tang make the blade feel lighter?
I imagine that everyone's noticed this, but does anyone know why? | I thought I was the only one. I have no idea, sorry. | 
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06-15-2006, 06:26 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,217
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee Why does bending the tang make the blade feel lighter?
I imagine that everyone's noticed this, but does anyone know why? | probably just the illusion of the point being in the right place with a relaxed hand vs. having to adjust the hand position to put it there.
A muscular illusion rather than an optical one...... 
Never tried this on a non-fencing guinea pig to see if it explains it. well that and the fact that most of the guinea pigs I've ever met have been sabreurs.
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06-15-2006, 06:26 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,260
| Changes the placement of a significant amount of weight, ie the handle. | |
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06-15-2006, 06:30 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,217
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by seven6ty Changes the placement of a significant amount of weight, ie the handle. |
Nah, the handles in the same place and the balance point is shifted laterally, so I can't imagine this is the same thing as a well balanced blade feeling lighter.
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06-15-2006, 06:36 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,260
| When you bend the handle down, it brings it slightly closer to the guard, same thing when you move it to the inside. Something pointing straight out is going to have its COG (center of gravity) further out than something that is placed diagonally, which brings the cog further in. | |
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06-15-2006, 06:43 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,469
| An interesting test would be to build 2 different blades with identical parts, but different cants, blind fold some fencers, and ask them which of the blades feel lighter.
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06-15-2006, 06:54 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,260
| Or you could just place your finger on the underside of the blade and try to balance it, and see which one has the cog closer to the handle... But blindfolding is always more fun though anyways! | |
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06-15-2006, 08:55 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Haydenville, MA
Posts: 1,557
| Based upon my remedial physics knowledge, this is what i would suspect. By bending it, you end up moving the center of mass off the blade, and moves it to a point closer to where you end up rotating the blade as you move it with your hand. | |
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06-15-2006, 09:03 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: I'd like to live under the warmth of anonymity
Posts: 336
| hey, speaking of bending of bending blade, anyone has any trouble bending a Vinity FIE blade. this is only blade I cant possibly put a set on (I have experiences with STM, LP, and a random assortments of cheap blades). I use a vice that is permanently mounted on my working table with threes screws. I clam the tang with the vice and start bending it, unfortunately, without moving it even one degree.
am I just too weak? | |
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06-15-2006, 09:25 PM
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#11 | | Admin
Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,570
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by BySword hey, speaking of bending of bending blade, anyone has any trouble bending a Vinity FIE blade. this is only blade I cant possibly put a set on (I have experiences with STM, LP, and a random assortments of cheap blades). I use a vice that is permanently mounted on my working table with threes screws. I clam the tang with the vice and start bending it, unfortunately, without moving it even one degree.
am I just too weak? | LP keeps the tang soft so it's easy to bend. StMs aren't tough. Vniti is a little tougher, but not too bad. BF's are the worst. I think we torqued the square tubing for the bleachers at the GA Games canting one.
Craig | |
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06-15-2006, 09:51 PM
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#12 | | The Judge
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,079
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Craig LP keeps the tang soft so it's easy to bend. StMs aren't tough. Vniti is a little tougher, but not too bad. BF's are the worst. I think we torqued the square tubing for the bleachers at the GA Games canting one.
Craig | i know i did, also.
anyway, putting a cant in the blade changes the center of gravity a bit, shifting it to a more comfortable position. its not that its lighter, its that the weight is being supported better by your hand/arm. | |
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06-15-2006, 10:01 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 680
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Craig LP keeps the tang soft so it's easy to bend. StMs aren't tough. Vniti is a little tougher, but not too bad. BF's are the worst. I think we torqued the square tubing for the bleachers at the GA Games canting one.
Craig | So true...so true. It took me an hour to cant my BF epee right.
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06-15-2006, 10:09 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: I'd like to live under the warmth of anonymity
Posts: 336
| looks like I havent tried the toughest yet...
*doing push ups*
does canting really matter that much though? I dont know if I perform better on a canted vinity than on a uncanted vinity since both my vinity are uncant :P I dont notice any big advantage of my canted LP though (yet?) looks like if I ever want to switch to BF, I will have to prepare myself now... *doing more push ups*
Last edited by BySword; 06-15-2006 at 10:14 PM.
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06-15-2006, 11:20 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX
Posts: 480
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Craig LP keeps the tang soft so it's easy to bend. StMs aren't tough. Vniti is a little tougher, but not too bad. BF's are the worst. I think we torqued the square tubing for the bleachers at the GA Games canting one.
Craig | Craig, Your right on the LP tangs. You can bend it all day long as long as you don't hear that sound "CLICK". You know the sound I am speaking of. When that sound comes out, your done.
BF's? Yep, they are tough, but I think the Vniti's are way tougher. I have to get the old torch out to heat it up (move around some of those molecules) before bending it. Otherwise, I very well may snap a tang off. 
Gary Spruill
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06-15-2006, 11:40 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,238
| Honestly, I"ve bent all my BFs and Vniti's either by putting the tang in the vice, bracing the elbow against the vice, and pulling, or by putting the blade in the vice, and using a steel rod to pull the tang.
I refer you to Archimedes: "Give me a long enough lever, and I will move the world."
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06-16-2006, 12:40 AM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX
Posts: 480
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by keropie Honestly, I"ve bent all my BFs and Vniti's either by putting the tang in the vice, bracing the elbow against the vice, and pulling, or by putting the blade in the vice, and using a steel rod to pull the tang.
I refer you to Archimedes: "Give me a long enough lever, and I will move the world." | I prefer a plastic tube myself to achive a straight pull.
Gary Spruill
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06-16-2006, 01:11 AM
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#18 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,931
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by prototoast Based upon my remedial physics knowledge, this is what i would suspect. By bending it, you end up moving the center of mass off the blade, and moves it to a point closer to where you end up rotating the blade as you move it with your hand. | While you're correct about the cant possibly giving you more torque during a rotation, seven6ty has the center of gravity issue backwards. By bringing a grip closer to the guard, you move the center of gravity closer to the tip of the weapon. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a center of gravity closer to the hand is to be desired. I also think the shift in center of gravity isn't enough to be noticed. | |
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06-16-2006, 02:15 AM
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#19 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 42
| The center of gravity wont move enough to really change the feeling of the blade. what is happening is that the torque from gravity on the blade is changed. instead of being primarily counteracted by your thumb witha strait balde, the torque is now shifted mor into your palm. The lighter feeling comes from not having to use your fingers as much to hold it up. | |
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06-16-2006, 03:28 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,165
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by twisterfencing Craig, Your right on the LP tangs. You can bend it all day long as long as you don't hear that sound "CLICK". You know the sound I am speaking of. When that sound comes out, your done.
BF's? Yep, they are tough, but I think the Vniti's are way tougher. I have to get the old torch out to heat it up (move around some of those molecules) before bending it. Otherwise, I very well may snap a tang off.
Gary Spruill |
Vniti blades seem so soft lately at least in the foible. they used to be soo much stiffer.
I find that to bend any tang I use a vise and a pipe along the blade to give me more grip and leverage. Its just a section of pipe about 2 ft long.
NEVER have I had any trouble bending any tang includign vniti using this method...actually vnitis are soo heavy compared to BF blues that i'd spend like forever bending them.
Fatfencer
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