Blade Setup: Tang Bend = Lighter Feel?

[rory]

Vice? Pipe?
Humbug.

A ring spanner and a strong grip is all you need.

[rac]

Originally Posted by BySword

hey, speaking of bending of bending blade, anyone has any trouble bending a Vinity FIE blade. this is only blade I cant possibly put a set on (I have experiences with STM, LP, and a random assortments of cheap blades). I use a vice that is permanently mounted on my working table with threes screws. I clam the tang with the vice and start bending it, unfortunately, without moving it even one degree.

am I just too weak?

Hey, I have to second this one. Last week was wiring 2 Vinity FIE blades for my daughter and had a He!! of a time bending the tang with a vice. We finally did it but I have never had that much trouble with a blade before. Maybe we got some from a "special" batch

[Mr Epee]

Here's one thought.

Bending the tang seems to place the blade more along the natural line of the forearm while keeping the wrist in a neutral position.

Is it possible that bending the tang improves physical efficiency?

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Here's one thought.

Bending the tang seems to place the blade more along the natural line of the forearm while keeping the wrist in a neutral position.

Is it possible that bending the tang improves physical efficiency?

yes, thats what i said
instead of supporting the blade with muscles in your hand, you're supporting it just by letting it sit there.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by noodle

yes, thats what i said
instead of supporting the blade with muscles in your hand, you're supporting it just by letting it sit there.

Look, pal.

I started this thread. How DARE you expect me to read it.

The nerve of some people.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by noodle

yes

Or no.

You're all experiencing a mass delusion. You saw other, perhaps better fencers with canted tangs, they told you that improved feel and you, suggestible creatures that you are, bought it. Believing it, you now actually think you feel it. Call it a variant of the placebo effect.

I can almost see a canted grip having some use in sabre, even if I can discern none myself. But in point weapons? Where the shortest distance between two points is a straight line running along the blade and through the tip? Pssh.

[seven6ty]

Have you ever even fenced epee or foil?

Straight sabres with no cant bug the living crap out of me.

Anybody else start to feel like it makes the blade a bit "too" light if you bend the tang a good bit? I've gotten mine to where it's almost perfect and one of the lightest feeling epees I've ever held, but I almost like having a litttlllleeee bit of heft in there, so it at least feels like you have something pushing back at least a little bit.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Or no.

You're all experiencing a mass delusion. You saw other, perhaps better fencers with canted tangs, they told you that improved feel and you, suggestible creatures that you are, bought it. Believing it, you now actually think you feel it. Call it a variant of the placebo effect.

I can almost see a canted grip having some use in sabre, even if I can discern none myself. But in point weapons? Where the shortest distance between two points is a straight line running along the blade and through the tip? Pssh.

Or perhaps better Armorers. But since you fence Sabre and don't feel anything unless your hit with at least a 2x4, you probably can't feel the difference. Also the Sabre is a much lighter blade, so canting it doesn't do as much.

When ever I put together a new blade, I have them hold there weapon and do a lunge. I then cant it and put it together. If the weapon they have is poorly balanced, I have them try the 2 weapons. They can tell which is which with their eyes closed.

You have many different muscles in your arm. They are not equally strong. If you can get most of the weight to pull on the strongest of them, it will feel lighter. It does not change the weight one bit, but it does make a difference.

[Inquartata]

Regrettably, I started in foil. I was not offered any other option. I forsook the silly thing at the earliest opprtunity and have not looked back.

I have done a little epee, out of desperation to fence when there ws no sabre to be had. The whole of my technique consisted of sabre footwork and using the bell guard as tough it were a tiny buckler.

Once upon a time, when you needed a particular muscle you used it until it got stronger! La, imagine that! Not for lazy children of the modern age, I guess.

And I still discern no difference between a straight and a bent blade. So either all of my muscles are equally strong, or it's just that I am not expecting to feel a difference and so I don't?

To mix metaphors horribly, drink the Koolaid if you like, but the Emperor still has no clothes on.

[DHCJr]

Your bicep is your strongest muscle. The muscles on the side are not as big, nor they as strong.

Try this. Take some weights and try lifting them with your elbow at your side. You will mostly use your bicep to be lifting it. Then hold your elbow out and lift the same weight straight up. You will be using the side muscles more. Hopefully even you will feel a difference in how a weight pulls down your arm.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

You're all experiencing a mass delusion.

Nope.

I build weapons on a daily basis and canted blade = better balance/feel, in all three weapons.

I do not have any double-blind studies nor theses submitted to fencing armorers quarterly, so don't ask.

Empirical evidence with a sample of 1 observer and an unknown number of repetitions that is >100.

(Plus, I know to listen to guys like DHCJr)

Craig

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by rory

Vice? Pipe?
Humbug.

A ring spanner and a strong grip is all you need.

Actually I recommended a wrench(spanner) AND a pip for use in a pinch at nationals in the armory tips thread.

Fat

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

You're all experiencing a mass delusion. You saw other, perhaps better fencers with canted tangs, they told you that improved feel and you, suggestible creatures that you are, bought it. Believing it, you now actually think you feel it. Call it a variant of the placebo effect.

Originally Posted by Craig

Nope.

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Or perhaps...

Haha, I don't know why people bother to argue with or even acknowlede Inq in these particular situations. This is one of those times when he's clearly determined to be a nuissance. Whether he actually believes he's right, enjoys playing devil's advocate, thinks he's somehow doing a favor by forcing us to think critically to address his dissenting opinion, or just feels obligated to be a curmudgeon, etc. remains to be seen. What we do know is that during times like these Inq is little more than a well spoken, slightly more respectable troll.


oh, btw Inq....tang bending occurs behind the guard, the bit of the weapon thats in front of the guard is always straight and usually either 35 or 34 in. as specified by the rulebook (i.e. your shortest distance between two points argument holds no relevance here whatsoever.)

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Craig

Empirical evidence with a sample of 1 observer and an unknown number of repetitions that is >100.

Subjective "feelings" do not make very good "empirical evidence", Craig. Sorry.

Il-lu-sion.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

oh, btw Inq....tang bending occurs behind the guard, the bit of the weapon thats in front of the guard is always straight and usually either 35 or 34 in. as specified by the rulebook (i.e. your shortest distance between two points argument holds no relevance here whatsoever.)

Sure it does.

Think of billiards. How do you hold the cue? Like a French grip---or with your hand on the butt at a pistol-grip angle? And which do you think works better for driving a linear implenent in a linear fashion?

Answer: The grip that's as parallel to the vector of attack as possible.

Why are there no bent pool cues, do you think? I mean, apart from those issued by the Lord High Executioner.


There's a reason why the vast majority of sword grips throughout history have had straight grips, not transverse ones like the pata or katar. Because funtionally they are superior, both for the thrust and the cut.

I think 3000 years of history trumps even Craig's 100+ sample size.

Placebo effect, people.

[bigdawg2121]

As a gentle reminder to those that may be tempted:

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

...during times like these Inq is little more than a well spoken, slightly more respectable troll...

Don't feed the Inq but feel free to contribute more ideas to the thread.

[Inquartata]

By all means---if you can't refute the argument, label the arguer in some suitably disdainful fashion. So much easier.

See ad hominem.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Sure it does.

Think of billiards. How do you hold the cue? Like a French grip---or with your hand on the butt at a pistol-grip angle? And which do you think works better for driving a linear implenent in a linear fashion?

Answer: The grip that's as parallel to the vector of attack as possible.

How often do you have to get past another pool cue, when you are trying to hit the ball? How often do you use a cue with one hand? The blades are curved for a reason. If it is better for the blade to be straight, why do we need to have a rule for maximum curviture? If it was better to have a blade perfectly straight and my opponent had curve of maybe 5cm and the referee told them to straighten it, I would tell the referee that it doesn't bother me and let them do it.

When you compare apples and oranges, you get fruit salad.

[KD5MDK]

It strikes me that if pool cues could have adjustible tips that could be bent from side to side, they'd be very popular for putting english on balls.