How to turn things around?

[Josedariom]

I do not know if I has been already discussed but I could not find anything on the search. I just took a really bad beat at summer nationals after being upset by a new fencer after I was winning 9-4. All my coaches and teammates tell me that these things happen and we can just learn from them, but these things also seem to happen to me on the big stages. I know it was not nerves but just bad strategy. I was wondering if any of you guys had gone through this and if you had any advice you could offer me. I also have my team competition soon so if you had any suggestions on overcoming a bad individual performance to make a contribution as the first or second man in a team event.

Thanks,
Dario

[Daniel Silvernail]

My coach in the 70's was Muriel Bower, first accredited female Master Fencer in the U.S. Paraphrasing her, the aphorism would be to fence in the present moment, not in the past. Be within the moment and then ask yourself as you face-off not "why did I loose that easy bout last month" but rather and most essentially, "how will I score my next touch?".
-Daniel

[RITFencing]

When you're winning 9-4, don't change anything. Don't think of 'closing it out' or anything like that. Whatever gets you more than twice as many touches as your opponent will likely keep working, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I know it's really hard to do, but you should really just focus on the touch at hand without worrying about the score at all. I've said this many times, but it really works: Get one touch. Then get one more. Then get one more. And keep doign that until the referee tells you to stop.

[sjpfencer220]

In addition to that, when you are winninig 9-4, even if it's in the last period, you should still be trying to score touches, not just wind down the time. Good luck this year.

[Josedariom]

I want to thank all you guys all your comments have been really helpful

[GorillaSmile]

Stay in the present moment and take it one point at a time. Don't out think yourself.

[Li'l Bebe]

it sounds like you're in quite a plateau right now in your ability. That has a tendancy to be a precursor to a leap in ability, like pains right before the growth spurt. Try analyzing your game and what you're currently working on, and just keep on trucking. Perhaps your game that you've been using isn't working now because you're fencing better fencers or fencers who now know your style very well because they've fenced you so much. If you're fencing the same people all the time, try visiting another club or salle for a week or two to mix it up a bit.

Whatever you do, don't give up, because if you quit, how can you ever improve?

[Josedariom]

Well thats exactly what I have been doing. I train with the national team because it is the only salle I have access to and I have been there since I started about 3 years ago and I usually face the same fencers almost every day. Have you ever had a plateua in your fencing abilities and how did yuo jumpstart this leap in ability if you could?

[Mr Epee]

One of the best solutions is just to talk about it... get it out of your system.

Even the very best fencers get rocked once in a while. I remember standing stripside watching one of my all time fencing heros (Sandro Cuomo) get handled 15-2 by some young german (turned out to be Fiedler - before he got real famous).

9-4 isn't a huge lead to blow... I would be much more concerned about blowing a 14-12 lead.

Don't worry.

[glowstix]

I remember standing stripside watching one of my all time fencing heros (Sandro Cuomo) get handled 15-2 by some young german (turned out to be Fiedler - before he got real famous).

what year was that?? joerg fiedler has been around that long??

9-4 isn't a huge lead to blow... I would be much more concerned about blowing a 14-12 lead.

heck i blew a 13-5 lead once, , i can laugh about it now since i made it back from it and won many bouts since then. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Mr Epee]

what year was that?? joerg fiedler has been around that long??

1998 or 1999 - I don't recall which.

heck i blew a 13-5 lead once, , i can laugh about it now since i made it back from it and won many bouts since then. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Exactly!

[Josedariom]

Ok. I do not know if this is good for my fencing, but as a student I am taking a summer program this summer and will be out of fencing for at least three weeks because I am in Denver, but plan to visit the Denver Fencing Center before and after the prgram begins, do you guys think this small break will help me overcome my plateau when I get back and should I personally work on any one thing while being away from fencing? Sinc I have access to a gymnasium during the program I was thinking of focusing on physical conditioning?

[Jim Letson]

I think that a short break might help you in that you won't be thinking exclusively of the one bout or the one problem, and hopefully, when you get back into your regular practice routine, you'll have emptied your mind of the problem, or at least started to approach it from a constructive rather than an analytic (here's how I'll fix it versus what am I doing) angle.

As far as what you ought to do during your break, I couldn't tell you for sure. Physical conditioning is always good to work on, and it's something that you can easily work on whether or not you have access to a gym or a fencing salle. You can also do footwork on just about any surface, provided your shoes give you traction, so do that. I try to do some footwork every day when I'm away from consistent practices.

Regarding the plateau you see in your own fencing ability, talk it over in-depth with your coach. Keep track of your mental state in bouts, and try in particular to be as detailed as you can when talking about the bout you lost after giving up the lead. Talk to your coach about it, and ask for advice. Mention it to the folks you fence with, too. I usually get something good out of discussing such things with teammates and opponents - there's always advice out there to be found, so long as you ask for it. Get as much input as you can.

Also, if you're looking for some cool reading on the topic of mental conditioning, with particular emphasis on fencing, get your hands on a copy of Aladar Kogler's One Touch At A Time. It's a really, really interesting book, and some of the stuff in it really helps me personally to concentrate on the strip (when I remember to do it).

Best of luck,
JL

[Josedariom]

Ohh ok thanks I will definitely be checking out that book if I can find it at a local bookstore when I visit Denver because I doubt I will find it here in Puerto Rico at least not at my local borders.

[tbryan]

what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Or maims you for life.

[Josedariom]

Thanks for the positive sentiment man

[Jim Letson]

It might be tough to find it. I couldn't find it in any bookstore, either in stock or to order (and I work at a bookstore, so I checked everything I possibly could). I had to borrow it from a friend.

Your best bet is to check the big bookstores (Amazon, Barnes and Noble), then fencing-related websites, then used online bookstores.

JL

[RITFencing]

One Touch at a Time was available at Absolute, last time I checked. They had a big stack of them in their showroom. Of course, that was months ago, so it might have changed.

[remise]

If being on a plateau means you're about to leap ahead, I must be getting ready for one heck of a leap, because I've been on a plateau for quite some time. Learning a ROW weapon after fencing years of epee can be very daunting.

[jBirch]

Sometimes I find with fencers that get to the "miles ahead mark" that they start doing one of three things:

1) I've got this...no need to work hard. Which loses them one point...then another...then another. And pretty soon there's the "trainwreck of desperation" where you just start fencing harder and harder in the belief that if you are just that mite faster, or that bit craftier or whatever that you'll win.

The solution? Fence and enjoy the moment.

2) They feel the end and want to drub the opponent. So they reach for the touch and start fencing more recklessly (I just have to get 1 out of every 3 touches and I'll win).

The solution? Fence and enjoy the moment.

3) They are so far ahead, that's its time to play defensive. I only need to be getting careful touches or elegant touches or clear touches. No more ugly touches for this bout.

The solution? Fence and enjoy the moment.

What inevitably happens is that there comes a "tipping point" where you feel the bout get out of control. How you respond to that feeling is what loses the bout. Talk to your coach and learn what to do given your own style when you're feeling that "trainwreck of desperation". They should be able to help you.

Hope this helps.

James.