for US 2006 Veterans to the World Championships

[jjefferies]

Ok guys here is the latest news. Got to get the forms
into Corinne by June 28 th. Here is what to me is a
new website which was
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 01:31:36 PM
Note that it has an updated point standings list which differs
from the one found at the National standings button. Looks to
be more recent.

http://international.usfencing.org/06VetWorlds.htm
Here is the link to the UK (Bath) website for the event.
http://www.veterans-fencing.co.uk/wc...ng/index.shtml

Wonder when we'll see the list of who's coming.

[Goofy]

So is it standard practice for USFA World Championship participants (of any age group) to pay their own entry fees?

[Peach]

So is it standard practice for USFA World Championship participants (of any age group) to pay their own entry fees?

Can't speak for any other age group, but veterans have their own incomes. We buy our warm-ups, pay our entry fees, make our own hotel reservations and flight plans, and shell out for the banquet.

And I for one think it's darn nice they let us do it.

[Peach]

Note that it has an updated point standings list which differs
from the one found at the National standings button. Looks to
be more recent.

The point standings are different because last year's World Veterans results are used for seeding us into the NAC events, but not for figuring the team.

I mailed my forms this morning. Woohooo!!!

[jjefferies]

So is it standard practice for USFA World Championship participants (of any age group) to pay their own entry fees?

Heh! Heh! Heh!
Man are you kidding? You get to pay for everything. Travel, housing, food, warmup suits. In 2004, Krems, we did get a nifty little vinyl pouch which I now use to hold my passport and a couple (2) of tags for our bags.

I'm not sure but the seniors may be some of their costs defrayed. My understanding is that the only people who get their way paid are the USFA officials. Athletes pay.

Ask not what the USFA can do for you, Ask what you can do for the USFA!

[jjefferies]

Can anyone parse the following text for me into something meaningful to humans? I'm sure it's very important because it was on the bottom of the website.

TIE BREAKER RULE FOR 2006:
In case of a tie in total points for the best two of three results from two qualifying events:
(1) the highest point award in one event shall resolve the tie;
in case the tie remains, then
(2) the next highest point award in the three events shall resolve the tie.
in case the tie remains, then
(3) a ten touch direct elimination fence-off at Summer Nationals shall resolve the tie.

[jjefferies]

I mailed my forms this morning. Woohooo!!!

Beat ya. Got them in wednesday along with checks etc.

Geeze Louise, I gotta quit thinking about it. Too much could happen in the next three weeks, injuries, illness, stock market crashes.

I'm wondering if there will be housing offers similar to Krems or if we're truly all on our own. If so maybe I'll rent a canal boat a week early and stay aboard it. Planning on renting one the week after the tournament and going cruising. Maybe up toward Reading. Or maybe go up country and rent one that will allow us to cruise on the Avon. Lovely area there.

[oiuyt]

Intent to compete and FIE license forms are due by June 28. This includes the payment for your events.

So you have to pay the entry fee for the event by June 28th. For an event which won't have teams selected until a week later than that deadline. When (per the site) team paperwork isn't due until August.

Anyone else think that's a bit rediculous?

The USFA already announces team members and alternates. Continuing that practice you don't need to have collected money in advance. If people that qualify can't go or choose not to go you move down to the alternates. As it currently stands it would be reasonable for someone with no shot at the top 4 to be expected to pay up just in case one of the people ahead of him/her isn't going (which s/he has no control over or necessarily knowledge of). If you might end up 5th or 6th you should pay just in case and so that you don't get skipped because someone ranked 7th or 8th took a flier and sent in THEIR money while you didn't. Just seems a poor way of handling the administrative side of this.

-B

[KD5MDK]

Let's say you're tied with someone for total points.
If you took 2nd and 3rd, and they tood 1st and 5th, they'll win, because they have a higher result (1st) than you (2nd). If you both had 2nd, but for some reason your second result was 3rd and theirs was 4th, you'd win, for having the higher second result. If you both took 2nd and 3rd or whatever, so your results were identical, then you have a fence-off.

[KD5MDK]

So you have to pay the entry fee for the event by June 28th. For an event which won't have teams selected until a week later than that deadline. When (per the site) team paperwork isn't due until August.

Anyone else think that's a bit rediculous?
-B

Totally agree.

Also, on the tie breakers, the second one seems a bit odd, in that given there are only 2 events counted (out of 3), if you're tied in points and also for highest result, your second result ought to be tied as well, unless the NACs and Summer Nationals give out different numbers of points.

[edew]

Can anyone parse the following text for me into something meaningful to humans? I'm sure it's very important because it was on the bottom of the website.

TIE BREAKER RULE FOR 2006:
In case of a tie in total points for the best two of three results from two qualifying events:
(1) the highest point award in one event shall resolve the tie;
in case the tie remains, then
(2) the next highest point award in the three events shall resolve the tie.
in case the tie remains, then
(3) a ten touch direct elimination fence-off at Summer Nationals shall resolve the tie.

Suppose you got 800, 400, 200 in three events. Best 2 of three will get you a total of 1200. Suppose Bob got 700, 500, 300. Best 2 of 3 gives Bob the same 1200. But by breaker rule #1, you are ahead.

Suppose you got 500, 500, 200 and Bob got 500, 500, 300. Both of your 2 of 3 will give 1000 points and the highest point award in one event are the same. So rule #2 goes to the third event where Bob got 300 and you got 200. Bob's ahead.

Suppose both you and Bob got 500, 500, 200. You guys fence off in a 10-touch DE at Summer Nationals. If you miss the event, then Bob wins (I'm guessing).

[edew]

Totally agree.

Also, on the tie breakers, the second one seems a bit odd, in that given there are only 2 events counted (out of 3), if you're tied in points and also for highest result, your second result ought to be tied as well, unless the NACs and Summer Nationals give out different numbers of points.

NACs and Summer Nationals do give out different points. Summer Nationals are age-restricted to decade intervals and so points are slightly less than for the Vet 40+ NAC events.

[KD5MDK]

I didn't realize 40+ points counted for fencers who also competed in their age category. Interesting.

[oiuyt]

Suppose you got 500, 500, 200 and Bob got 500, 500, 300. Both of your 2 of 3 will give 1000 points and the highest point award in one event are the same. So rule #2 goes to the third event where Bob got 300 and you got 200. Bob's ahead.

This is NOT what tie-breaker #2 says. I agree with KD5MDK that it's a meaningless tiebreaker, but it absolutely does not read that you go to the third result.

40+ points DON'T count towards team selection. The NAC and SN results are on the same points scale.

-B

[oiuyt]

What happens if only one of the two fencers tied is present in Atlanta? The absent fencer loses tie-breaker #3 by default?

-B

[Goofy]

This is NOT what tie-breaker #2 says. I agree with KD5MDK that it's a meaningless tiebreaker, but it absolutely does not read that you go to the third result.

It seems to...

TIE BREAKER RULE FOR 2006:
In case of a tie in total points for the best two of three results from two qualifying events:
(1) the highest point award in one event shall resolve the tie;
in case the tie remains, then
(2) the next highest point award in the three events shall resolve the tie.
in case the tie remains, then
(3) a ten touch direct elimination fence-off at Summer Nationals shall resolve the tie.

...but it probably means that Result #1 in the total still gives a tie, so you go to Result #2 of the total.

What happens if only one of the two fencers tied is present in Atlanta? The absent fencer loses tie-breaker #3 by default?

Probably.

[Peach]

I didn't realize 40+ points counted for fencers who also competed in their age category. Interesting.

They count for seeding into the 40+ events. That's all. Team standings are decided by your results in the age category.

What happens if only one of the two fencers tied is present in Atlanta? The absent fencer loses tie-breaker #3 by default?

The object is to make sure you have the team member with the most current good results, if two standings are equal.

So you have to pay the entry fee for the event by June 28th. For an event which won't have teams selected until a week later than that deadline. When (per the site) team paperwork isn't due until August.

Good point. Question: Has anyone on the board received this paperwork when they have NOT nailed down a spot on the team? In my own event, two spots are locked already.

Beat ya. Got them in wednesday along with checks etc.

You win! I am a teacher and classes start the week after Labor Day, but I'm going the previous Tuesday with my husband and we've already made reservations for a hotel. If there's a good deal going, I'll change. I want to take some day trips (Stonehenge, etc.).

[mrbiggs]

What happens if only one of the two fencers tied is present in Atlanta? The absent fencer loses tie-breaker #3 by default?

-B

What happens if neither is present?

[Goofy]

What happens if neither is present?

My bet would be a coin toss.

[misha]

So you have to pay the entry fee for the event by June 28th. For an event which won't have teams selected until a week later than that deadline. When (per the site) team paperwork isn't due until August.

Anyone else think that's a bit rediculous?

The USFA already announces team members and alternates. Continuing that practice you don't need to have collected money in advance. If people that qualify can't go or choose not to go you move down to the alternates. As it currently stands it would be reasonable for someone with no shot at the top 4 to be expected to pay up just in case one of the people ahead of him/her isn't going (which s/he has no control over or necessarily knowledge of). If you might end up 5th or 6th you should pay just in case and so that you don't get skipped because someone ranked 7th or 8th took a flier and sent in THEIR money while you didn't. Just seems a poor way of handling the administrative side of this.

-B

Something is very very wrong with this picture:

USFA Board Member complains about organizaton where
he is supposed to be partially in charge on a public forum....



.