us rating system

[ntjst4sprt]

I'm looking for the info of how the rating system works, I searched around a bit but came up empty.. a point in the right direction would be appreciated, thanks.

[tbryan]

I'm looking for the info of how the rating system works, I searched around a bit but came up empty.. a point in the right direction would be appreciated, thanks.

The information you want is in the USFA Athlete Handbook. See chapter 2 and the classification chart in appendix 2.

[Peach]

When you say rating system, do you mean:
-Rating events? (Who gets what classification by finishing where)
-Fencer classification? (ABCDEU)
-Point standings? (Who makes the team)
This can be answered in a number of ways depending on what you mean.

[HDG]

The information you want is in the USFA Athlete Handbook.

Chapter 2.2 in particular

[ntjst4sprt]

Chapter 2.2 in particular

thanks.. that put me in the right direction..

Peach: rating events to start with.

I was looking at results on ask fred and couldnt make any sense of why so few awards were given..

like a u placing ahead of 3-4 d's a couple c's and maybe a b..

now after briefly looking at the chart, depending on the competition it could take a while for U to get rated..

[HDG]

I was looking at results on ask fred and couldnt make any sense of why so few awards were given..

like a u placing ahead of 3-4 d's a couple c's and maybe a b..

now after briefly looking at the chart, depending on the competition it could take a while for U to get rated..

If you look at the first post in this recent thread, some of these issues are addressed.

[peet]

Also note: there is an event classification (rating) chart link in the left menu on askFRED.


HTH!

-P

[mrbiggs]

now after briefly looking at the chart, depending on the competition it could take a while for U to get rated..

It's not too bad. The best bet is to enter a U competition. Ideally, there are about 15-25 fencers, out of which a few will be very new. So you really only have to be the best of 2 or 3 other Us to get an E.

[KD5MDK]

A 15 fencer competiton gives a 1/5 chance of earning a rating, and a 6 fencer competition gives a 1/6. On the other hand, a 15 fencer C1 tournament with 2Cs, 2Ds and 2Es give 2/9 ratings, and you don't have to win it. In fact, you can get a rating with only winning 1 DE (that's how I got my E), or even not, if you're the top seeded person to lose in the first round.

[mrbiggs]

A 15 fencer competiton gives a 1/5 chance of earning a rating, and a 6 fencer competition gives a 1/6. On the other hand, a 15 fencer C1 tournament with 2Cs, 2Ds and 2Es give 2/9 ratings, and you don't have to win it. In fact, you can get a rating with only winning 1 DE (that's how I got my E), or even not, if you're the top seeded person to lose in the first round.

Yeah, but weak C1 competitions are rarer than weak D1 competitions.

In theory, an A4 is actually the easiest way to get an E (top 48 out of 64, with 36 rated), but it's very rare to see a weak A4.

[glowstix]

or even not, if you're the top seeded person to lose in the first round.

and that's the flaw in the rating system..you can earn a rating without even beating someone of at least that rating.

[KD5MDK]

Only at the lowest levels. Being the top seed to lose the first round of DEs is reasonably rare for a U.

[mrbiggs]

and that's the flaw in the rating system..you can earn a rating without even beating someone of at least that rating.

No it isn't, that's true of any letter. The circumstances just get less common as the rankings get higher.

[oiuyt]

A 15 fencer competiton gives a 1/5 chance of earning a rating,

Given that third is probably ties it's more like 1/4. And the event has no one who's already rated. Unclassified tournaments in the 15-20 person range are clearly the easiest method of becoming classified.

-B

[Fechter1]

Yeah, but weak C1 competitions are rarer than weak D1 competitions.

In theory, an A4 is actually the easiest way to get an E (top 48 out of 64, with 36 rated), but it's very rare to see a weak A4.

Check any local event that's an A4. Not to say they're especially weak, but that's IMHO the best way of earning ratings, especially the middle ratings. You usually see a number of ratings earned or renewed, at least in epee. <takes cover from the spillover of the ratings inflation threads...>

[mrbiggs]

Check any local event that's an A4. Not to say they're especially weak, but that's IMHO the best way of earning ratings, especially the middle ratings. You usually see a number of ratings earned or renewed, at least in epee. <takes cover from the spillover of the ratings inflation threads...>

In men's epee, maybe...

There are still only a few A4 events that I know of over the course of the year. And they're all big ones like the Cherry Blossom open and the pomme de terre.


Askfred can find 6 A4 tournaments since october 2004. They were all in men's epee, and almost all in the northeast. I suspect that there are a few more than that, but they are very rare.

Especially since such large events usually have huge amounts of Ds and Es who prevent the few Us who show up from getting anywhere. Each one of those events has 1 or 2 Us earning Ds or Es. As opposed to the guaranteed 4 in a large U tournament.

[KD5MDK]

2005 Longhorn Open
2006 Poujardieu Memorial
Bobcat Open 05
2005 Poujardieu Memorial
2004 Longhorn Open
All located in either Austin or San Marcos, TX.

[mrbiggs]

2005 Longhorn Open
2006 Poujardieu Memorial
Bobcat Open 05
2005 Poujardieu Memorial
2004 Longhorn Open
All located in either Austin or San Marcos, TX.

+ Cherry Blossom open in Maryland.

The Pomme de Terre isn't on askfred,but I remember that as also being an A4, again only in men's epee.

[KD5MDK]

Askfred can find 6 A4 tournaments since october 2004. They were all in men's epee, and almost all in the northeast.

These were all since Oct 2004 (well, 04 Longhorn was late Oct), Longhorns were Men's Epee, Bobcat and Pouj were Mixed, and none were in the Northeast, and all on FRED.

[Fechter1]

In men's epee, maybe...

There are still only a few A4 events that I know of over the course of the year. And they're all big ones like the Cherry Blossom open and the pomme de terre.


Askfred can find 6 A4 tournaments since october 2004. They were all in men's epee, and almost all in the northeast. I suspect that there are a few more than that, but they are very rare.

Especially since such large events usually have huge amounts of Ds and Es who prevent the few Us who show up from getting anywhere. Each one of those events has 1 or 2 Us earning Ds or Es. As opposed to the guaranteed 4 in a large U tournament.

I've fenced in 3 'regional' A4s this season. Kickoff Open (VA), Cherry Blossom (CAP) and Sectionals (Mid-atlantic). Hangover in VA missed an A3 rating by 3 Bs...
True, in those 3 tournaments, 8 Us earned ratings (although 2 of them really don't count)
Howeverm, in those 3 tournaments, the following ratings were awarded:
As: 9 new, 5 reearned
Bs: 7 new, 10 reearned
Cs: 5 new, 1 reearned
Ds: 3 new
Es: 5 news, 1 reearned
(That's if my count is right...)
In those 3 tournaments, more ratings were awarded than in virtually all the other Mid-atlantic tournaments combined (haven't actually counted those yet). Thus, in the Mid-atlantic region, in Men's Epee (actually, these were all mixed events...), A4s are the easiest means to earn the higher ratings.