Radio-connected refs?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


In the Soccer World Cup, refs will have radio contact with their side refs and the time-keeper.

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...em/5004364.stm

What would this do for fencing? How about BC having radiolinks to ref´s, asking them how the poule is going, if the mat/spool is broken, red/black cards, requests for medical attention, etc? Would that be an inprovement? I can imagine things speeding up a bit, especially for multi-room competions. The really time-draining snafus would probably be quickened up a bit.

What is your take on this?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Phincer]

I think we've been to a large tournament where the LOC used small walkie-talkies just as you suggested. I thought it was a great idea. Their tournaments are so well run anyway, I couldn't tell if it was an improvement or not.

There was one fly in the ointment. We were carrying a set of walkie-talkie with us (we usually do), and a couple of the kids grabbed ours out of our bags and were walking all over the referee channel. Once they figured out they were bothering someone, they really had a field day.

Not my kids, but I did remove the radios from their little paws once I found out what they were doing.

[Frank Pratt]

You're suggesting that referees be allowed to do something that would get a fencer black carded?! Talk about hypocrisy!

Seriously, though, it's not a bad idea. A frequency could be assigned for each strip, and one frequency could be reserved for referees to communicate with the Bout Committee.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

You guys know that this will degenerate to the point where the referees are playing cops and robbers.

[oiuyt]

The easy solution at NACs is to have cell numbers for select BC personnel. Occasionally these have been distributed to the referees for the purpose of being able to get information to the BC when on far-flung strips. They come in handy at times. As a referee I'd rather carry a phone (on vibrate) than a walkie-talkie. Fewer problems, all of the discussion is directly between the two people involved, etc. I see no benefit to the walkie-talkie solution.

-B

[seak]

well unless everyone has a cell phone with a large number of unlimited use minutes (I mean of course I do but there are still Luddites out there who dont ) it could get expensive for the refs/bc

Buying phones and plans for a large number of people would probably be prohibativly expensive for the USFA

edit: for spelling thanks tallntender

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by seak

well unless everyone has a cell phone with a large number of unlimited use minutes (I mean of course I do but there are still ludites out there who dont ) it could get expensive for the refs/bc

Refs don't really have to consult the bout commitee all that often. And most of the calls they do have to make are pretty short.

[fencerbill]

I like Brad's idea of the ref getting back when he chooses to. I don't want an earpiece or a speaker distracting me when I am running down the strip to see if the retreating fencer actually does get the light on before he is off the end of the strip.

This could be accomplished also by the PDA's which transmit pool results back to the BC. The BC could send an alert which the ref would see when he looked to change the score.

[seak]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Refs don't really have to consult the bout commitee all that often. And most of the calls they do have to make are pretty short.

But you are still assuming the everyone has a cell phone . Also the BC will probably be taking more calls, and some people just really hate going over their minutes (and also have to use their cell phones for other things). They don't like giving the cell phone company that satisfaction!

[Monash_Armourer]

Radio controlled rats.

That's what I read anyway. I think my eyesight might be going.

Personally though, I'm all for it. Stick Eeectrodes in their brain, steer 'em round wherever ya want 'em to go. Kinda defeats that whole maze experiment thing, but it could still be fun.

[tallntender]

Originally Posted by seak

well unless everyone has a cell phone with a large number of unlimited use minutes (I mean of course I do but there are still ludites out there who dont ) it could get expensive for the refs/bc

Seak, It's "Luddites."

[oiuyt]

The BC already has a means of conveying information to the referees (and armorers and fencers and spectators) via the PA system(s). Most cell plans cover weekends without additional charge. While that doesn't help for the weekday portion of NACs, it covers most events over the course of a tournament. As mentioned above, referees rarely need to make such calls. At times the numbers have been distributed in the past with instructions to use them. One would assume that in these cases those numbers being distributed are not at risk of overage charges.

A walkie-talkie that's turned on and taking general announcements is not reasonable for referees to carry. At best it'll be left on the table with the scoring machine. Useful for 1-way communications -- especially if everyone other than the BC keeps his/hers turned off except when in use -- but functionally equivalent to the cell phone. Except that most referees are capable of providing their own cell phone and ensuring such things as correctly charged batteries and, especially in convention space, operating networks.

Are cell phones the only reasonable solution, or a complete one? No. But they're an easy 80% solution that we already have and that the USFA has used at times in the past.

-B

[Teme]

I think it would be preferable to have somebody else at the piste -- like the person who clocks the bout, or keeps records, you know, the refs little helpers (don't tell me you haven't those?) -- who would also be responsible for commonications with the mother lode.
If the ref needs something, the refs tells it to the tehm, and they use approved radio codes to effectively transfer the request. They can also keep BC informed in real-time, so when the scrosheet gets to BC, they just chect that they have all the data correct and press the button to get next round on the way...

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Teme

I think it would be preferable to have somebody else at the piste -- like the person who clocks the bout, or keeps records, you know, the refs little helpers (don't tell me you haven't those?) -- who would also be responsible for commonications with the mother lode.
If the ref needs something, the refs tells it to the tehm, and they use approved radio codes to effectively transfer the request. They can also keep BC informed in real-time, so when the scrosheet gets to BC, they just chect that they have all the data correct and press the button to get next round on the way...

We rarely have the number of volunteers that this would require. I've been at NACs where "runners" were assigned to every pod of 4(ish) strips. It sort of worked. Most LOCs don't get enough people to cover the weekend that well in addition to all of the other volunteer tasks required that have higher priority.

The referee operates the clock and records scores.

-B

[seak]

so what is really needed is pagers that can text message.

Also summer nationals is not majority on the weekends.

Cell phones work and I can see why the've been used in the past. For me it would be no problem. I just know a couple of people who don't have cell phones or dont have plans with free weekends included etc

[Teme]

Tell me about it! Around here a well organised competition is one where the fencers don't have to ref in their pools, and somebody not wearing fencing kit is calculating the next round...

I faintly recall hijacking people from their beds at 4:00 AM just to be sure they 'volunteer' to help in organisation, when A Really Big And Important competition is imminent.

[KD5MDK]

Refs are frequently assigned in pairs at National tournaments. At Reno, where they had two rooms, there was a satellite bout committee table in the smaller room.

[dekko]

Most of these events take place on the weekends or we're not talking about lots of calls anyway so the minutes issue is less of a concern.

I do like the idea of having some radios around to get in touch with medical folks and the occassional TC/BC person.

The phone idea would work as I bet at least 90% of the refs have one and 2-5 minutes used for calls isn't that big a deal.

Wonder who would be willing to let their number be used for that. Although in Sacramento there was a TC number given out for use by the refs. Don't remember who it was but was handy for different things.

I do wish they would get the resturant style pagers for when refs are needed. It would make things easier for the refs when they are needed to ref. It is one more thing to keep up with but not that big a deal.

[KD5MDK]

I know a vendor who is contemplating using the restaraunt style pagers for equipment repairs, so fencers aren't constantly pestering them "is it done yet?".

[BySword]

In my school, each one the staff is assigned of a nextel walkie-talkie phone. Though it wont work for tournaments though, but I am just suggesting that this way is secure