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epeeisky · 06-04-2006, 10:29 PM

One of my clubmates gave me a foil to work on. I went to disassemble the foil to put a new gaurd on the weapon, but when I went to take the outside nut off, it did not come off. When the nut got about 5 mm from the end of the tang the nut just stopped moving. It seems to spin, but not go anywhere. I have tried about everything that I could think of. What should I do to get the nut off the foil?

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 06-04-2006, 10:42 PM

Try needle nose pliars. If not, cut through the grip with a dremel.

yeoldearmourer · 06-05-2006, 12:15 AM

Pull the handle as tight as you can against the nut this as work for me in the past. Plus the needles nose is another good way

epeeisky · 06-05-2006, 12:25 AM

I had already tried the needle nose pliers, but the nut did not move. Also, I just tried your suggestion, yeolearmourer, but the nut did not move. It turns(or gives the allusion of turning because the handle gets lose) and does nothing. I thought about cutting the handle away, but the nut would still be on the tang, and the handle would be ruined.

fencerbill · 06-05-2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epeeisky

I had already tried the needle nose pliers, but the nut did not move. Also, I just tried your suggestion, yeolearmourer, but the nut did not move. It turns(or gives the allusion of turning because the handle gets lose) and does nothing. I thought about cutting the handle away, but the nut would still be on the tang, and the handle would be ruined.

How much does a grip cost?

Being able to use the weapon again? Priceless (to paraphrase current commercials).

If you are going to cut the grip, cut it below the pommel. Then you can get a much better grip on the pommel. A hacksaw and a vice may give you better control than a Dremel.

Purple Fencer · 06-05-2006, 12:48 AM

I'm extgremely tired from drum corps practice today, but I THINK the same kinda thing happened to me once. The suggestion I got (which worked) was to pu the blade in a vise so the jaws were gripping the forte....turn the nut with one hand and pull back on the grip with the other. The pressure SHOULD help get the nut to back all the way off.

twisterfencing · 06-05-2006, 10:56 AM

If pulling on the grip while wrenching on the nut does not work, then its time to cut the girp off to save the weapon.

Oddly enough, this is not the end of your problem.

What is taking place is: most likely you are missing threads on the tang. Keeping the pommel from grabbing anything to turn. This is caused by many diffrent things, yet most of the time is caused by a fencer that cannot/does not keep they're grip tight. The loose pommel grinds on the threads like a tied boat to a dock.

Fix: if this is the problem, you will need to make a new set up threads on the tang. Can you run a 6mm x 1 down the threads to fix? NO. If you have what I think you have, you have missing threads/worn tang. Cant fix what is not there. You will need a Die 12x24. This will cut new threads for you at a smaller diamater. Then you will need to use a 12x24 pommel.

Where can you get the die for this: Most good hardware stores will have one to fit your holder: if you cannot locate here is a web site: http://sword-masters.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=182

Now for a pommel: this is a little tricky'er. The only vendor that I know of that carries 12x24 pommels is American, they do not list it, yet I know they have them. Here is they're web site: http://amfence.com/html/products.html Give them a call.

This will fix the problem.

Last solution: if its a cheapie blade, tell the fencer to take off the point/tip, get another blade and your problem is solved with the exception of: tell the fencer to keep the grip tight from now on.

Reminder: I am only guessing at the problem and going off what info I have in this post to help your issue.

Gary Spruill

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 06-05-2006, 11:41 AM

If you rethread the tang and rethread the little nut, NEVER EVER EVER attempt to put that nut on another weapon. When the weapon breaks, throw the nut away, burn it, hell, throw it in the firey cracks of mordor, but never ever ever let it get back into circulation with the other nuts. It will **** you up.

twisterfencing · 06-05-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

It will **** you up.

YES IT WILL!

Good advise Hadouken!

Gary Spruill

DHCJr · 06-05-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

If you rethread the tang and rethread the little nut, NEVER EVER EVER attempt to put that nut on another weapon. When the weapon breaks, throw the nut away, burn it, hell, throw it in the firey cracks of mordor, but never ever ever let it get back into circulation with the other nuts. It will **** you up.

This bothers me. When you rethread the tang it will get smaller. If you rethread a tang it will get larger. You can't do both.

The solution from twisterfencing is to take the thread from 6mm, which it most likely is to 12-24. The pommell is 6mm. You can not rethread a 6mm pommel to 12-24.

epeeisky · 06-05-2006, 01:03 PM

Twisterfencing is correct. I tightened down the nut so I could see the problem spot on the tang, got a flashligh so I could see, and saw that the threads were damaged and worn down extensively. Also, the nut itself was worn. Its hex shape is now more of a circle and the wrench does not grip well. So I think that I am going to have to cut the thing apart and salvage what I can. Thanks for all the help.

KD5MDK · 06-05-2006, 01:45 PM

Thought if the blade is cheap:
If you can back the nut far enough back that the handle is 1/2 and inch or more away from the guard, you might be able to sneak a pair of bolt cutters (or hacksaw, etc) in and cut the blade there. The blade is still lost (if you don't do the 12-24 trick) but the grip is saved.

PeterGustafsson · 06-05-2006, 04:13 PM

Hi!

Quote:

Originally Posted by epeeisky

Twisterfencing is correct. I tightened down the nut so I could see the problem spot on the tang, got a flashligh so I could see, and saw that the threads were damaged and worn down extensively. Also, the nut itself was worn. Its hex shape is now more of a circle and the wrench does not grip well. So I think that I am going to have to cut the thing apart and salvage what I can. Thanks for all the help.

Nut is bad and cheap. OK then, try to break it without breaking either grip or blade. If you have some time, a dremel and a small grinding bit you might be able to grind through the nut in two diametrally opposite places. Once that is done, the nut falls into two pieces, and it should be possible to shake them out.

Now you have a good grip, a blade with bad threading, and assorted other parts.

The bad threading is the difficult thing - it is easy to take away material to rethread a bad female thread, but for a bad male thread material has already been removed. My suggestion is to first add material, and then rethread it. First wind the threading die in its die stock down to the end of the thread, were the threads hopefully are good. Grease up the die and stock, but be sure not to get any grease one the threaded part of the tang. Use a rust solvent to get as clean surface as possible, and then take away that with acetone. Allow to dry. Then use Chemical Metal to cover the bad part of the threading, and apply enough to fill up to the maximum diameter of the thread. Let the stuff set. Once that is done, you cover it with tapping oil. Now you can back up the threading die and die stock, and therefore ensure continuous threading all the way up. There you are, new male threads of the old size.

Note that this is my suggestion. I have not tried myself, but it ought to work. Let us know how it went!

Chemical metal can be found here:
http://www.motormania.co.uk/product_...?intDescID=243

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

KD5MDK · 06-05-2006, 04:54 PM

If when the nut is fully tightened it is completely off the stripped part, and you're already using an outside hex, if you can cut the nut off, there's no reason not to cut the tang where it is stripped, recut the threads at the end so they're clean, and stick a new outside hex on.

Morion · 06-05-2006, 05:00 PM

As suggested before if it is a 6mm thread then you can rethread it to 12/24 and use a 12/24 pommel nut. 12/24 is a smaller diameter than 6mm. I'm puzzled as to why you can't get the existing nut off by pulling on the handle. That should pull it past the stripped point to where it can engage the threads. Good luck!

epeeisky · 06-06-2006, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morion

As suggested before if it is a 6mm thread then you can rethread it to 12/24 and use a 12/24 pommel nut. 12/24 is a smaller diameter than 6mm. I'm puzzled as to why you can't get the existing nut off by pulling on the handle. That should pull it past the stripped point to where it can engage the threads. Good luck!

I tried to pull the puppy off. I put the gaurd between my feet, grabbed the handle and pulled to no avail.

KD5MDK, I was using tight as a relative term. There seems to be a 2mm travel area that is undamaged. What I meant by tight was as far forward as it would go. At this point the gaurd would still spin around.

Peter, to buy all the equipment needed for your suggestion would cost more to my clubmate than to buy a new foil and wire, but thanks for the suggestion. If I had the seed money needed for all the stuff I would try it.

penguin_2000 · 06-06-2006, 02:00 AM

I'm surprised that pulling on the handle doesn't get the nut past the stripped threads.

You could try this (and this is what I do when bolt-cutting a tang messes up some threads)... take another nut and screw it on... it may cut new threads for you... at least enough so you can get the first nut off. You may have to back it in and out a few times. Good luck.

ReverseLunge · 06-06-2006, 02:16 AM

Apply super glue to the inside of the wrench then insert the wrench, wait a few minutes for the glue to set and twist. Later you can just dip the wrench in acetone to get the nut out.

keropie · 06-06-2006, 02:43 AM

Back the grip up as far as you can, cut the tang, save the grip, get them to get a new blade and wire, and start over

Purple Fencer · 06-06-2006, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epeeisky

I tried to pull the puppy off. I put the gaurd between my feet, grabbed the handle and pulled to no avail.

You have to pull the handle with one hand while backing the nut off with the other....at the same time....

What you just described was an attempt to pull the nut through the remaining threads...ain't gonna happen...