Confidence

[Coby]

Junior seems to have developed a distinct lack of confidence in himself due to I think a couple of past results not being up to the very high standard which he sets himself,has anyone had the same thing happen to a son /daughter .
I try and big him up looking at positive points in a fight ,when all he can see is the loss ,he is 12 years and I,m beginning to think this may have some thing to do with the onslaught of puberty, any ideas thanks

[Peach]

You'll get different answers, and it depends on your kid.

However, I teach 12-year-olds and have also weathered raising a competitor, and you have to have faith that he will weather his lack of confidence and his focus on losses rather than victories. Say that to him. Say, "I know you don't feel confident right now, but I know you will figure out a way to get past that." Then let him work on it. The key fact to remember in adolescents is that they are often very eager to handle things on their own, that they learn as well from mistakes as they do from successes, and that they want to be trusted to do things on their own (even though they want you to be there for them). In my experience the biggest problem parents have is they care so much about their kids that they think the distress of loss is fatal. It ain't. Losing is part of the game, and nobody likes losing.

You can mention it to his coach as well, as long as you're not his coach. Often, the greater emotional distance between a competitor and a coach makes it easier to hear suggestions.

I also recommend leaving the room when he's fencing, but that was what worked for me and my daughter. She had to be able to vent about her losses, and it was very tiresome having her mom there trying to look on the bright side. She really didn't want to tell me to shut up and leave her alone, so I had to detach enough from her to recognize that I needed to do that to give her some space.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Many fencers go through stages of low confidence.

I went through a stage a while back where I was losing to terrible fencers who I should have beaten. My confidence and self respect on the strip went down the drain. I had to go out and win a tournament that I was expected to win to get my confidence back.

[mlr2fence]

I agree with giving the child space and time after a bout--both for a win and a loss. Just stand there where they can see you and come to you when they're ready. That way they learn that they can weather all sorts of things on their own--which is what this (sports) is all about, anyway. The worst that you can do is overly gush or try to console since it'll just embarrass them, esp the pre-teens and teens. Take the cues from them as to what and how much they need. He might just need a little time to 'lick his wounds'. You don't want them to grow up thinking that every little thing they accomplish has to have someone gushing over them telling them how great they are, for it doesn't happen in the real world. The trick is in helping them learn how to gain intrinsic satisfaction and sense of accomplishment along with how to deal with disappointments.
Also, since he's still learning the ropes try to divert the focus away from the wins/losses to having a goal to work on for each tournament. Make it an achievable goal that you both along with the coach decide on. As he feels a 'winner' for having accomplished the goal the rest will fall into place. Kids tend to have alot of self doubts as they grow thru the teen years--the search for identity. Let him know that you'll be there for him and things generally work out OK. Also, if you tend to make a big deal out of it then he blows it up into more of a big deal--the old vicious cycle.

[Fencergrl]

I agree with giving the kid space to deal with his losses as well as leaving the room. Having someone watch when you are doing badly makes it much harder to deal with.... think about your own experiences.

As a kid, winning and losing was everything for me. As I've matured, I focus more on goals. You can't win all the time, no one does. So there's going be large chunks of your time feeling crappy about your performance.

A way to help your son out of this emotional roller coaster is to teach him to be goal focused. Set realistic goals, focus on achieving those goals as a means to achieve the long term goals.

Catastrophic failures simply become not meeting a short term goal or something to analyze. You don't feel like a failure, you just see it as a minor set-back to the long term goal. The key is to set realistic, achievable goals. There are tons of books out there in your bookstore and library to help you with this.

Your son may be quite surprised how much faster he develops as a fencer by working on goals rather than bouncing up and down on his wins and losses.

[Supermom]

[QUOTE=Peach]You'll get different answers, and it depends on your kid.

However, I teach 12-year-olds and have also weathered raising a competitor, and you have to have faith that he will weather his lack of confidence and his focus on losses rather than victories.

Peach - just out of curiousity, does your daughter still fence?

[Peach]

Peach - just out of curiousity, does your daughter still fence?

She started in 4th grade, and now she's in graduate school after fencing through college (co-captained the team, won various things, made NCAAs, developed a very good attitude toward winning & losing & all the rest) and took a breather to play rugby for a while. She's talking lately about coming back to fencing.

Fencing in college tends to become a full-time job, plus paying club fees on a teaching stipend is a little tough.

[GorillaSmile]

When I was a kid I played baseball and my dad was my coach from the age of 5-16. And to be honest, I really wasn't that good so there were a lot of times that my confidence was shot. My real growing as a player came when I got into school leagues and he wasn't my coach anymore. After bad games/practices (and he made all of my games and as much of my practices that he could) my dad let me vent and complain and when I was over that he would point out thing to work on. Always focusing on the positive, "If we work on this, you can do this next time" as opposed to "It didn't work for you because you didn't do this". And after I put my two cents worth in on these specifics and had a new plan worked out, he would go to the always-look-at-the-bright-side-of-life part and point out the little positives in the overall negative.

This has stuck with me and I find I do the same pattern now after losses or even after wins. It's great because even if I feel horrible immediately after the bout, by the time I get home I have a plan for the next week and a positive outlook overall.

[jrgunn]

Junior seems to have developed a distinct lack of confidence in himself due to I think a couple of past results not being up to the very high standard which he sets himself,has anyone had the same thing happen to a son /daughter .
I try and big him up looking at positive points in a fight ,when all he can see is the loss ,he is 12 years and I,m beginning to think this may have some thing to do with the onslaught of puberty, any ideas thanks

Yeah....its tough. My son entered this last season (he turns 12 in August) with some pretty catastrophic losses, but has been able to fight his way into the top 8 most of the time, with an occasional 2nd place finish in local and RYC's.
His attitude right now is that he fences "not to lose" rather than "to win". I'm not sure that's a good thing, but from what everyone else here has said, it sounds pretty normal. (i.e. the puberty thing).
He recently lost a bout with another kid that beats him regularly. He was nose to nose with the guy until the 8 point break (fencing Y14). He was focused, strong, and together. Two points into the back stretch, as he put it, he knew he was going to win, then felt his victory "slip away" and couldn't gather the strength to turn it back around.
I had to let him be. It was very hard. I haven't seen him weep from a loss so bitterly in a very long time. The only thing I did was hug him, ask him to put his bag together (give him something to do), and got him something to drink. As we had to wait around for the medal ceremony (he made top 8 again), he had plenty of time to deal with it.
We determined afterward that skill and tactics wasn't the issue. It was endurance, something we have been doing something about since.

The upshot: leave him be, maybe give him a simple task to help him calm down, determine one specific thing that led to the loss and work on it at home and the club.

And as has been said, just be there.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I would honestly reccomend training until you're so good that you do not need confidence/mental toughness to win.

With that said, training is not at all exclusive from having confidence or mental toughness. Long hours training not only trains the body, but it trains the mind to resist losing.

[mrbiggs]

I would honestly reccomend training until you're so good that you do not need confidence/mental toughness to win.

All except very, very few 12 year olds are going to get to the point where they can win that easily. Of course, I don't know from the original point if this is an example of those few...

I'm going to have to join the chorus saying to give him space. My brother had a similar problem at the age of 10 or so, and I tried to solve it by forcing him to practice, and it turned him off from the sport almost entirely. Your son seems to be more advanced in age and ability, so the situation is not identical, but it is a possibility.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I would honestly reccomend training until you're so good that you do not need confidence/mental toughness to win.

Most Olympic athletes, across sports lines, indicated that they had the exact same level of technical aptitude even several YEARS before they were at the olympic level, and that it was psychological training that made the difference in being a nationally good to a globally good level.





When I was 14, I was a very bad fencer. And I knew that. Then again, I had very little coaching... Now that I have a great deal more coaching, I'm much more confident... I'm also much more emotionally involved.

It's sometimes useful to point out that in any given competition, there is only one person who can walk out the door having not lost all day, and even that often doesn't happen....


what sorts of competitions does your son fence in?? If he's only had the chance to fence in large competitions with people much better than him, fencing at level might be a huge morale boost.

[sleepyweasle]

You didn't mention how long he has been fencing and what kind of competitions he is competing in...

One of the hardest things for kids of that age to understand is why, especially if they are fairly athletic and good at other sports, they are not automatically great at fencing from the start. My daughter started fencing at the relatively advanced age (for her peer group which includes Becca Ward, Caroline Vloka, etc.) of 13 1/2. It took me a while to convince her that she wasn't losing because she was a bad fencer - rather she was losing because these other girls were such good fencers - partially because they had been doing it much longer than she had. This is especially had for kids to conceive of if they have been winning frequently on the local level and then start fencing on the National level and come across tougher competition.

One thing that helped ground my daughter was when she was moaning about losing a bout I would ask her if she really liked fencing. Because if all she really liked was winning she probably should switch to a different sport. However if she loved fencing, as she assured me she did, than the important thing was to fence as many great people as possible and learn from each bout - win or lose. (Of course this was after the initial sympathy expressions, etc.) Rather than focus on the loss, focus on what the fencer can do next time to fence better (although not necessarily win - that's where the above mentioned goal setting fits in - maybe the goal is just to get 1 touch on the nationally ranked fencer). Sometimes, depending on the kid & the coach, this is better coming from the coach.

As you didn't mention what kind of competitions your child is fencing - one good confidence booster is to enter a few fun easy competitions where hopefully he can gain some confidence back with good results - before resuming harder tournaments.

The other thing that has always helped my kid was to be as honest as possible (tactfully) about her fencing - whether she won or lost. If she wins while fencing sloppily - I will congratulate her but remark that she should clean up her form, while if she loses while fencing beautifully I will make sure she understands how well she fenced and how proud she should be of herself for fencing well. Again, although the object of the game may seem to be to WIN at all costs at this age - as your fencer matures he will understand that the real object is to improve his fencing and the winning will come naturally after that. Kids are also more apt to believe praise that comes at appropriate times rather than praise that occurs no matter what the circumstances or blaming everything but the kid (i.e. bad directing, faulty equipment, etc.) for a bad result.