Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

DieterS · 06-03-2006, 05:19 PM

This message is for Eigertek Eclipse owners.

Hi all,

This is just to let you know that you're entitled to a free chip upgrade for your Eclipses. The new "Doha" chip incorporates the timing changes specified by the FIE at their November 2005 meeting in Doha, Qatar (plus some other features). The full text of the announcement is available on our website, http://www.eigertek.com.

As of today, American Fencers Supply (http://www.amfence.com) has them in stock. If you plan to go to the summer nationals, bring your Eclipses along and the AFS folks will install your new Doha chip on the spot.

Feel free to ask questions here. After Monday, I'll be traveling for a while and my responses may be sporatic. Finally, if you know of other Eclipse owners, please pass this information along to them.

Thanks for your business and happy fencing!

Dieter

------------------
Dieter Schlaepfer
President, Eigertek

edew · 06-03-2006, 09:12 PM

Can people explain what the new changes are, that is, the changes incorporated in the Doha meeting? Oh, and any word of upgrades for the Favero machines? I have both Eclipses and Faveros. Will make changes for the Eclipses, but would like to have my Faveros changed as well, if the change is required for USFA events.

DieterS · 06-03-2006, 10:22 PM

The changes that were mandated by the FIE Congress last November are published in Information Letter 20 (see the 2005 listings on the FIE website, http://www.fie.ch).

The timing changes primarily involve added tolerances to the previously specified timing changes. The primary change is the official adoption of a new foil debounce timing as applied to invalid touches (14 ms +/-1 ms) to match that of valid touches.

The last USFA Minutes document posted on their website is only for September 2005, so it's not easy to confirm USFA actions since then. From previous experience however, I'd expect that the USFA adopts FIE-mandated changes in the following USFA meeting.

Dieter

hpfencing · 06-04-2006, 12:56 PM

Thanks for keeping us informed. We use eclipise and favaro here as well and it's terrible to always have to pay for the favaro upgrades, when the farvaro machines are FREE.

I heard of a extention light testing a while back for the eclipse boxes, anyone seen or heard anything about them yet?

KD5MDK · 06-04-2006, 01:09 PM

Matt, where are you getting free Favero machines?

HDG · 06-04-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Matt, where are you getting free Favero machines?

Yeah really; sign me up for a few.

DieterS · 06-04-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpfencing

Thanks for keeping us informed. We use eclipise and favaro here as well and it's terrible to always have to pay for the favaro upgrades, when the farvaro machines are FREE.

I heard of a extention light testing a while back for the eclipse boxes, anyone seen or heard anything about them yet?

You're right, not many people figure in the cost of upgrades or repairs. Maybe with this free Eclipse upgrade, some of the other vendors will follow suit or at least lower their high prices!

We built a prototype of the extension/repeater lights for the Eclipse that was very nice, but I was not satisfied at all with the price. Currently, we're looking into less expensive alternatives. Ironically, the least expensive part of the extension lights are the electronics!

Dieter
Eigertek

Inquartata · 06-05-2006, 04:41 AM

These changes are for foil only, right? No changes to the sabre timing?

downunder · 06-05-2006, 05:11 AM

Inq,

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieterS

The timing changes primarily involve added tolerances to the previously specified timing changes. The primary change is the official adoption of a new foil debounce timing as applied to invalid touches (14 ms +/-1 ms) to match that of valid touches.

So there is some sabre change, but none that you'll notice.

The foil change is just clarifying.

DieterS · 06-05-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

Inq,

So there is some sabre change, but none that you'll notice.

The foil change is just clarifying.

That's right. Under the changes specified by the FIE Leipzig Congress, the saber lockout was set to 120 ms (down from 350-400 ms). At the Doha Congress, the FIE added a 10 ms tolerance to the lockout value.

With foil, the changes were more complicated. The Leipzig Congress changed the foil lockout from 350 ms to 300 ms and the *valid* debounce timing from 1-5 ms to 15 ms. Several, but not all, scoring machine vendors made an interpretive error and applied the foil debounce timing to *both* valid and invalid hits. Thus, Mr. Roch issued a "clarification" stating that what the FIE actually *meant* to say is that the foil debounce timing of 14 ms (!) should apply to both valid and invalid hits. The Doha Congress made the change official, adding a tolerance of 1 ms.

Dieter

edew · 06-05-2006, 01:28 PM

The benefit for me is that I can hook up to an Eigertek and practice flicks on a dummy to see if things are workable.

DieterS · 06-05-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edew

The benefit for me is that I can hook up to an Eigertek and practice flicks on a dummy to see if things are workable.

Exactly!

edew · 06-05-2006, 04:44 PM

I have other dummies to practice on too, but they get grumpy when I hit too hard.

Inquartata · 06-06-2006, 05:31 AM

What I was getting at was: Does my club now have to buy new chips for its machines again? Or are the current ( Leipzig ) ones acceptable for competitions?

KD5MDK · 06-06-2006, 01:10 PM

Are you using Eigertek boxes? Then no, you don't have to buy anything. Are you using other boxes? I don't really know.

Inquartata · 06-07-2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Are you using Eigertek boxes? Then no, you don't have to buy anything.

Obtain, then. Change out. Futz with yet again. Will we have to do that? Will doing that be mandatory in order to be in compliance with FIE standards?

DieterS · 06-11-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Obtain, then. Change out. Futz with yet again. Will we have to do that? Will doing that be mandatory in order to be in compliance with FIE standards?

Unfortunately, yes. The changes are subtle, but I'd recommend upgrading (especially considering the price). And more changes will be considered by the FIE in the next two years.

Dieter

DieterS · 06-15-2006, 12:49 AM

Hi all,

One more thing.

I'd like to ask a favor from the folks here who fence at a club that uses one or more Eclipses. Please let your club owner know that his or her Eclipses are eligible for a FREE chip upgrade to the latest FIE rules changes (November 2005).

Also, If you or anyone from your club is going to the Summer Nationals, you can pick up the chip upgrade from the American Fencers Supply booth. All we ask is that you fill out a sheet with contact information for your club.

Thanks for your help!

Dieter
Eigertek

edew · 08-23-2006, 05:19 AM

Folks who are using the Doha chips:

When fencing saber, do you ever get phantom touches (for the fencer on the left, getting a singular red light)?

We've been getting the lights on occasion and thought it could be a number of other possibilities, but tonight, I did a thorough testing and it shows that the Doha chips will get a singular red light (and on rare occasions, a singular green light) when the blades meet. That is, when the two saber just touch each other (as in a parry or beat), the red light might just come on. I have forwarded my testing procedure to Dieter and just posting this here to see if anybody else have had this problem.

I don't recognize any problems with the foil portion (more of my flicks are landing, so I'm not sure if that's good either...).

The problem is definitely with the machine, as I switched the connectors and the red light came on still. It won't work if one is not hooked up to a reel or at least some length of floor cord plus reel. (I don't have a short female-female connector to substitute for the reel.) It occurs with both a Favero or Uhlmann reel. I'm suspecting it has something to do with increased resistance in the length of the cable, and the constant hitting that might trigger a bad switching in the chip's logic.

Tomas N · 08-23-2006, 09:42 AM

Strangely enough, I was fencing epee yesterday for the first time with the new Doha chip and the same thing was happening. Blades touch, perhaps a hit to the bellguard, fencer on the left received a point. At the time I thought it was due to a malfunction in some other part of the system, a possibility which I can't discard given that I haven't done any systematic testing yet and that the LP reel that the fencer on the right was using has been a constant source of mysterious problems.

Tomas