Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

edew · 08-23-2006, 05:10 PM

Talked to Matthew at American Fencers Supply. There is indeed a bug in the Doha chip and EricS is working on it. Hopefully will get Doha2 soon.

Tomas N · 08-23-2006, 06:51 PM

Glad I didn't throw the Leipzig chip out then. Perhaps an announcement from Eigertek would be appropriate here?

Tomas

reawl · 08-23-2006, 10:26 PM

Tonight at practice we had a situation TWICE where there would be a strong beat into the wall (the strip is just 6" from the wall). I believe both blades were touching, but this was out of the corner of my eye.

In these scenarios, the box acted as if it was turned off then back on, making the "boot up noise" and going through the light cycle. This is on the new Doha chip. They were fencing foil. I have not noticed the same behavior on the other box with the Doha chip yet. I have not done a through investigation of other possible sources of failure. Just wanted to post it here in case it was part of the same issue or if anyone else has experienced it.

DieterS · 08-23-2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomas N

Glad I didn't throw the Leipzig chip out then. Perhaps an announcement from Eigertek would be appropriate here?
Tomas

Hi Tomas,
We verified a defect in the saber program last Friday and alerted American Fencer's Supply. We are working on fixing the problem now (it occurs primarily with a sliding blade contact). As soon as we're satisfied that it's fixed, we'll provide a chip exchange (the Doha chips are reprogrammable).

Dieter

-----------------
Dieter Schlaepfer
Eigertek

DieterS · 08-23-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reawl

Tonight at practice we had a situation TWICE where there would be a strong beat into the wall (the strip is just 6" from the wall). I believe both blades were touching, but this was out of the corner of my eye.

In these scenarios, the box acted as if it was turned off then back on, making the "boot up noise" and going through the light cycle. This is on the new Doha chip. They were fencing foil. I have not noticed the same behavior on the other box with the Doha chip yet. I have not done a through investigation of other possible sources of failure. Just wanted to post it here in case it was part of the same issue or if anyone else has experienced it.

No, the behavior that you're describing sounds more like the Eclipse is getting hit with a powerful shot of static. The Eclipse resets to protect itself. The static can often come from fencing on carpet or plastic sport tiles rather than a standard wood floor.

Dieter

qatet · 08-24-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieterS

No, the behavior that you're describing sounds more like the Eclipse is getting hit with a powerful shot of static. The Eclipse resets to protect itself. The static can often come from fencing on carpet or plastic sport tiles rather than a standard wood floor.

Dieter

Interesting... does this static impact other types of machines, too? Our machines have plenty of ghosts, and plenty of places where those ghosts could be hiding, but I'd be curious to know if this could even influence them.

reawl · 08-24-2006, 01:27 AM

We do have a carpet floor and we recently changed the mount to the wall (from "hanging by a string" to a very fuzzy velcro) which may have made such a discharge to the box possible. Thanks Eric for the info, I'll see what I can do to change the situation.

DieterS · 08-24-2006, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qatet

Interesting... does this static impact other types of machines, too? Our machines have plenty of ghosts, and plenty of places where those ghosts could be hiding, but I'd be curious to know if this could even influence them.

Yes, all machines are vulnerable to high static--and we've seen some other brands of machines that "lose their mind" under those circumstances. We've also repaired a few Eclipses that were fried this way (at no charge, by the way). Fencing on carpet can result in *enormous* static charges that can damage nearly any electronic device.

Dieter

edew · 08-24-2006, 04:33 AM

I can vouch for that (fencing on carpet and the static resulting from that). It really p**sed people off because they're about to make a great hit and the machine resets itself. Tap your blade onto a grounding piece of metal. Often.

KD5MDK · 08-24-2006, 06:14 AM

I saw an Eigertek box at a club I was visiting last night and tried to find out if they were on the Doha timings. They got very confused when I tried to explain the Leipzig timings aren't the most recent. Oh well, probably little harm done.

DieterS · 09-16-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edew

Folks who are using the Doha chips:
When fencing saber, do you ever get phantom touches (for the fencer on the left, getting a singular red light)?
(snip)

Thanks for letting us know. Yes, unfortunately a sliding blade contact in saber can indeed cause phantom touches with the Doha chip. We tracked down the problem and it turned out to be the additional static protection that we added recently.

The good news is that we can fix the problem. The better news is that we'll do it at no charge. There is a drawback, however. The solution requires us to disable the extra static protection. So, if you're fencing saber, send your Eclipses to American Fencer's Supply and we'll fix them at no charge--but you cannot fence on carpet or high static plastic sport tile (which you shouldn't do anyway).

If you fence foil or epee only, we recommend that you keep the extra static protection.

Dieter
Eigertek

reawl · 09-16-2006, 02:22 AM

Do you need the boxes, or can we just be sent chips to replace the ones with the extra static protection?

DieterS · 09-16-2006, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reawl

Do you need the boxes, or can we just be sent chips to replace the ones with the extra static protection?

The static protection is on the board. So, we need to make a modification to the board rather than sending you a chip.

Dieter
Eigertek

larkmaj · 09-16-2006, 11:57 AM

How recent is this static modefication? If it's to the board, then how do we know if our box(s) has it or not.

DieterS · 09-16-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larkmaj

How recent is this static modefication? If it's to the board, then how do we know if our box(s) has it or not.

We added the modification a couple of years ago. You can tell if it says the following near the bottom-right of the PC board:

(C) 2003 Eigertek
Eclipse Rev. C
Made in USA

We also made the modification to a few Rev. B boards for people fencing in high-static environments that sent in their machines for repair.

Dieter
Eigertek

reawl · 09-17-2006, 12:14 AM

So where's the balance? Our club fences sabre and we fence on carpet floors. We can't move, and we need our scoring boxes to not give false signals. We didn't seem to have any problems on the previous (Leipzig) chip. Surely there's got to be a way to have the best of both worlds?

DieterS · 09-17-2006, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reawl

So where's the balance? Our club fences sabre and we fence on carpet floors. We can't move, and we need our scoring boxes to not give false signals. We didn't seem to have any problems on the previous (Leipzig) chip. Surely there's got to be a way to have the best of both worlds?

We're working on it. If you have no other choice but to fence on carpet, you could look into commercial anti-static treatments. You could purchase hardwood strips (the kind they use to lay down dance floors) to make into a piste. Or another choice is to go back to the Leipzig chip, or you can take your chances with the static (ground yourself after every action).

The Eclipse, even without the extra static protection, does have 4 kilovolts of static protection built in. It's just that you can run into trouble with the combination of dry crackly air, and fencing on carpet or plastic sport tile. Fencing on a carpet on a cold, dry winter day and causing a spark produces about 1.5 kilovolts to 7 kilovolts or more, depending on the humidity. Static discharges at the upper end will damage almost any electronic device.

Static electricity is more common when the air is dry--you don't usually get any until the relative humidity drops below 40%. Humidity is normally lower in the winter, and heating the fencing area further reduces the humidity. If you notice that the air is particularly dry, you can use a humidifier to reduce static electricity to some extent.

If you notice that your Eclipse is resetting itself or flickering, turn off your Eclipse immediately to prevent static damage.

Anyway, I hope this will give you some acceptable options. Don't hesitate to contact me directly (see the Eigertek website) for additional help.

Dieter
Eigertek

KD5MDK · 09-17-2006, 09:19 AM

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: The Leipzig chip doesn't have the static issues that Doha has, at least to some degree?

Also, if the club is sabre only, the only difference between the Leipzig and Doha timings they'll see is Doha has a 10ms tolerance built in, right?

DieterS · 09-17-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: The Leipzig chip doesn't have the static issues that Doha has, at least to some degree?

Not exactly. The extra static protection we added to the Rev. C boards does not play well with the Doha chip in saber. Yes, the problem did not show up with the Leipzig chip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Also, if the club is sabre only, the only difference between the Leipzig and Doha timings they'll see is Doha has a 10ms tolerance built in, right?

Actually, we already had a tighter tolerance than required by the FIE. The primary difference between the Leipzig chip and the Doha chip in saber is that we completely redesigned and reinstated the saber whipover lockout in Doha. We removed it from the Leipzig chip because it caused more problems than it solved. For a saber-only application, the Leipzig chip is a viable option.

Dieter
Eigertek