World Trade Center

[MHS Fencer]

Wow...

I was at school, every TV was tuned to the news, everybody who had heard the news was stunned, some cried, I have no doubt that some have parents who are now dead. I live just outside of New York City and I could see the smoke from the park infront of my house. All of my loved ones are thankfully accounted for, including one who was on a flight to Washington DC this morning. My hope and best wishes go out to all of those affected (that is, more affected than me, because i can't go into fencing today or possibly for the rest of the week, but i'm thankful that's my only casualty).

And yes, it was brilliantly carried out. But, to all those who are emotional, i think that we need to be careful when we strike back - we want to get the people who are truly responsible and not those who just fall under our general impressions as "terrorists."

-Ian

[neevel]

One thing I think needs to be said. As we all experience the feelings of justified rage over this, we should be careful not to project those feelings onto innocent people.

The well-justified rage over Pearl Harbor led to an inexcusable violation of the basic rights of Japanese-Americans, people who bore no responsibility for the attack, almost all of whom abhorred it as thoroughly as anyone else, and many of whom went on to distinguish themselves fighting in the war in Europe (as well as some in the Asia/Pacific theater). These people bore no more general responsibility for the actions of the Japanese militarists than German-Americans (like Dwight D. Eisenhower) bore general responsibilty for the crimes of the Nazis.

There will likely be incidents of people expressing anger at Arab-Americans and American Muslims in the coming weeks. This is wrong. The creatures that carried out these attacks were no more good Muslims than the "Real IRA" monsters that planted the bomb in Omagh were good Catholics. In rage, we should not rashly lash out at innocent targets who share our horror.

The actual culprits and their collaborators must be identified, and then retribution and justice should be exacted with a cold, methodical fury. If a particular national government does turn out to be an instigator or collaborator, then that nation will be in a state of war with us and will face the consequences. But blindly striking against any nation just because they happen to be Arabic will do no more good than declaring war on Switzerland in WWII just because they were heavily Germanic and Italian and happened to have some citizens who were Facist sympathizers would've done.

And we'd all do well to rememeber that everyone thought that Oklahoma City was Middle-East related in the first few hours, but it turned out to be home-grown terrorists who were responsible. Sometimes the "obvious" suspects don't turn out to be the guilty party. Seek, locate, _then_ exterminate.

-Dave

[damianip]

Yes, we don't even know who did it, but whoever did it was very sophisticated and well organized and financed. It may be a while before we find out.

It may not be over yet, either. All of you be careful and appreciate everyone in your lives who is safe and healthy.

My S.O. is stuck in France (which, under normal circumstances would be great). Now she is under orders from the US embassy to not speak English on the streets. She's scared, and so am I.

This is neither a game nor a Tom Clancy novel. It's a nightmare come true for many and an end to our perceptions of life, safety and freedom in the US.

BTW, if you are going to donate blood, call the Blood Center before you go. I called and was "bumped" to tomorrow AM. They can't handle the initial response but will certainly continue to need blood over the next days and weeks.

Paolo

[arcon]

"Only a true idiot would admire the execution and professionlism of terrorist monsters with no regard for human life."

arcon

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[dragonpesce]

My sympahies and prayers go out to anyone on this message board with family or friends involved in this catastrophe.

I agree with much of what has been said here. We must find the individuals responsible for this and make them accountable for their actions. What we do NOT need to do is fly into a full fledged war. Terrorist actions are intended to both scare and incite anger in its targets. If we immediately start waving our military around in anger, this is what the instigators of this crime want. Little puppies calling out the big dog. Instead of worrying about who is responsible, all we should focus on at the moment is recovering, rebuilding and healing. Those responsible will be found soon enough.

What truly disgusted me was footage shown on the news of Palestinians cheering about the success of the attacks. Its their right to not like us, but it makes me sick that they would cheer at such a senseless and truly massive loss of innocent life.

[Moonitic]

Dragon, you are so right. Cheering over innocent lives...that's cowardice in its purest form. Some people have such black hearts.

[SteveMcDonough]

I have no words.

[Sildar]

My sympathy to all those who lost loved ones. Ditto Moon's comment; honor the dead by going on living to the fullest.
Isn't the Martinez Academy in Manhattan? Chris Umbs or anyone else who goes there, please let us know you guys are all okay!

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Moonitic:
<STRONG>Mergs, whether you believe in Him or not, is not the issue, but I'll say it anyway:

God says, "Vengence is mine."

One of the 10 Commandments says "Thou Shalt NOT Kill."

I trust the Lord.</STRONG>

Allow me to clarify. The commandment actually says "Thou shalt not MURDER." There is a BIG difference. Vengeance is, indeed, his. But I would have no problem killing in order to bring that vengeance about sooner, and to protect others. And people wonder why I want to join the Air Force. I'd personally take a bomber to them given the chance.

[Swordsman]

If tomorrow all the things were gone I'd worked for all my life,
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife.
I'd thank my lucky stars to be livin' here today,
'cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away.

And I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free.
And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I'd gladly stand up; next to you and defend her still today.
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land...God bless the USA

From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee,
across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea,
From Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA
Well, there's pride in every American heart,
and it's time to stand and say

That I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free,
and I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I'd gladly stand up; next to you and defend her still today.
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land...God bless the USA

God bless the USA


Lee Greenwood, "God Bless the USA"

[Iwant2bafencer]

Swordsman you Literally just braught me to tears! I feal exactly the same way. In fact I was simply humming that as I went down the halls at school, and I had a few people join in. It was extremely touching!
I agree with everyone. I Pray that everyone in NY is safe along with their family and friends. Not to mention everyone else. If you had friends and relatives in that area my prayers are with you and them.
At lunch today me and a bunch of my friends simply went out side, got in a circle, and prayed for everyone.
What makes me mad is how some people take it so lightly! They joke about it saying oh blame it on them, or they did it. It really cooks my noodle. I understand that that is how somepeople cope with it, but you can only go so far.
I also agree with Moon go on and live your lives. I almost didnt go to Tennis today cuz I was fealing so down. Although, even though I lost I feal alot better just because I did it. This falls in line with my quote. "Capre Diem" Seize the Day!
At this time I am pretty much at a lose for words like Steve. So I'm done on this post for today. As I said before my prayers are with everyone here. The first thing I wanted to do when I got home was post on here. I knew there would be a post already. Even though I have only been here a few months you guys are like family to me! I love you all, and hope you are safe!

----------------------
Carpe Diem

[Shadow Fencer]

Unfortunately, I may know some of the victims as my company's corporate offices were on the 19th-31st floors in WTC 1.

It's been an awful day.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by arcon:
[QB]"Only a true idiot would admire the execution and professionlism of terrorist monsters with no regard for human life."

arcon

Arcon;

I don't know if you were quoting someone else or of these are your own words.

I don't admire those responsible -- I personally hope they're burning in Hell. But, remember that both Mergs and myself are military men. I served in the mid-80s and Mergs is (I believe) currently active. We are invidicually horrified, but, as someone who has served his country, I have to admit that it was a near perfect attack sequence...two buildings struck in the perfect place to bring them down, in the morning when it wa likely to be heavily populated, with the possible loss of tens of thousands. The Pentagon itself being struck (and it was only luck that the plane came down on the side of the building NOT where the Joint Chiefs and Sec of Defense offices are), and, beyond the sheer mangatude of the losses, it caused terror nation -- and indeed -- worldwide. THAT is the true purpose of a terrorist, the spreading of fear. I do NOT admire it, I just acknowledge that it was effective.

[damianip]

Originally posted by Purple Fencer:
<STRONG>

I have to admit that it was a near perfect attack sequence...two buildings struck in the perfect place to bring them down, in the morning when it wa likely to be heavily populated, with the possible loss of tens of thousands. The Pentagon itself being struck (and it was only luck that the plane came down on the side of the building NOT where the Joint Chiefs and Sec of Defense offices are), and, beyond the sheer mangatude of the losses, it caused terror nation -- and indeed -- worldwide. THAT is the true purpose of a terrorist, the spreading of fear. I do NOT admire it, I just acknowledge that it was effective.</STRONG>

The execution was effective in the case of the WTC because it was an undefended civilian target in a country when war has not been declared. It probably ranks with the My Lai massacre as an example of military effectiveness.

As far as the Pentagon goes, remember when the German kid landed his private plane in front of the Kremlin? Again, a civilian aircraft in a state of "peace". It could easily have been the same case here.

I guess the lesson is that we are now forever at war with "shadow" enemies and must behave that way.

Paolo

[Catlady]

Warning as with most of my posts, this is long. You have been warned.

I echo the words and sympathies posted on this board. My prayers and thoughts are truly with all who have been affected by these events. I truly believe that those who have lost their lives are with God and those whom they loved who have passed away before them--although, as always, the hard part is not theirs instead it falls to those of us who are left behind. I believe as well that the perpetrators also among the dead are painfully and fully aware of the magnitude of the pain they have caused. Perhaps the ultimate punishment is this awareness, and that, I believe, is as it should be. As for those tied to this attack who still live, I agree that we must do something to show them that we will simply not allow such atrocities, however, I do hope that we will not allow the fear to overwhelm us,that we will be aware of our own power and when we do take action we will be careful to not react in a rash manner that we may regret in retrospect. I of course have an opinion on everything and am for the most part against anything that harms our fellow humans, but I am posting this not to dicuss politics, or in an attempt to argue my beliefs, but to express my sympathy and to perhaps be of some comfort.
I agree with Moon, live it is, as they say, ultimately the greatest victory and the best revenge. Be kind to one another, even if there is never another life lost in this world to terrorist acts--I wish it could be so-- you may just as easily be run over by the bus tomorrow, or some such thing. Value life, if you love someone tell them. Be kind, to yourself and others.
It would perhaps be more appropriate if I were speechless, and it is a near thing, but as my loved ones will tell you that never happens. As someone who calls herself a writer, this is how I make sense out of things, by writing. I believe it can be helpful even for those of us who normally do not write. I've often found that by putting the emotions and thoughts on paper the various pains become less, or at least I become better able to cope with them.
If there is anything good about this, it has done a bit to renew my faith in the human race in general, and the American people in particular. When it comes down to it, we truly want to help each other, we can help each other, and we can cooperate when it counts. Sometimes the nation and the world seem pretty messed up, but I guess ultimately, we're all right, or we can be if we apply ourselves to the task. At least here in Utah,-- and from what I hear in many other areas as well-- the Red Cross currently has more blood donors than it can take, to the point of asking people to come in next week since all the slots for tonight, tomorrow and through the weekend are full. There was a blood drive all ready scheduled for my neighborhood, I will now be sure to participate, especially since my blood type is O+--although I always thought that was the most common blood-type.
I will admit to having been glib about it, despite how deep my feelings are running. All I can say is sometimes reality gets so scary and absurd that all you can do is laugh in its face and give it the figurative finger. For some of us humor is the way we manage to keep our heads together. So please, lets all be patient with each other, especially while we're all still feeling a bit emotionally over-loaded.
If you are in the NY, or DC areas, please follow the Webmaster's advice and let us know whether you and yours are all right. Again, to all my brothers and sisters in God and arms, I hurt for you and my thoughts and prayers will remain with you.
Sorry for rambling so long, my tendency to do so seems to only get worse in extremity.

[Event Horizon]

I'm just probably repeating things that have already been said but felt I needed to say them. Any time there is some national tragedy or crisis being experienced as a nation and as a people, history has shown us that it brings the country together. Our resolve will get us through this tragedy and it will make us stronger.

I really think the police/fire/EMS/doctors and many others have performed an outstanding job during this crisis.

[erewhon]

Although I'm based in London, our company is still missing alot of people in NY.

Heartfelt sympathies to anyone missing relatives and friends.

To judge from the mood, British people are appalled by this act of savage barbarism.

[Haze]

Blair was on tv about an hour ago, recalling parliament, expressing regret and expressing britain's solidarity with the US. He also stated that there is likely a significant british loss, and that the attack on america was an attack the whole of the free and democratic world. The last time parliament was recalled was in the aftermath of the Omagh bombing. There is terrorism bad enough in northern ireland and in many other places around the world but the shear scale of this atrocity makes it almost unbelievable. I hope however, that more innocent lives are not lost in bringing the perpetrators to justice.

[Zelda]

I heard Wednesday morning here in Australia when my alarm went off. I was still half asleep nad didnt comprehend for a few minutes. It then hit me. Today has been by far one of the wierdest days in my life. People are on automatic. I came home from fencing earlier then usual to spend time with my Dad who has just come home from China, and the roads where almost deserted. Its like deadly silent. Everyone is still in front of their TV's almost 24 hours later. My mind can not comprehend what has happened.

[scarlet_woman156k]

The death tolls that are being talked about are amazing...just getting the individuals who did this is not enough. I really agree with what Bush said last night (I forget the exact quote), something along the lines of whatever state would actually "support" (harbor was it?) these individuals are on the sh!t list too.

This is a serious business, people. A very serious business. It is completely, utterly wrong. Do you realize what a massive scale of destruction this is?

They knocked the beehive, the bees are gonna start stinging.

I've never, ever considered myself a "real American"...but I've never been exposed to real devastation to ignite the sort of passions that are associated with the idea...this has completely changed the reality of my existance, I will do anything to help.