Correct Chest Possition for saber

[SacFencer]

Ok so i have a problem. About a year ago i was fencing at the Sacromento Fencing Club and had been for 3 years. I had a personal instructor and weekly classes. Now i used to fence foil so i would curve my chest out towards the the wall to become less of a target. When i went into Saber for 2 years (1 year after foil) My personal Instructor told me to not do that and face my chest toward my aponent a little more. This is was i became used to and became a saber fencer this way. Now last summer i had to move to the coast and the only place i can fence is at the REC Center (yeah not what im used to) and my "instuctor" who has never been in a compatition or a club tells me that i have to flatten my chest toward the wall like i would if i was doing foil. Doing this i was off ballance and wasnt able to block or attack as well i used to.

so my question is

"Which is the right way to possition your chest when fencing saber"

(thank you for reading all of that lol)

[slowgraffiti515]

completely facing them is just silly, and so is completely turning away if you feel like it handicaps you. keep your off-shoulder back but relaxed. the further back it is, the smaller your target area. its different for everyone so try to find what works best for you.

also, watch some awesome olympic sabre fencers and see what they do. its much easier to see than visualize from words.

[KD5MDK]

Um, the way that feels best for you?

[Ordway]

All else being equal, having your back shoulder further back reduces target area and is thus a good thing.

However, all else is not equal. There are tradeoffs involved, as you have already noticed. The most notable is that if you force your back shoulder to go back when it doesn't want to, you'll be tensing up your shoulders, which will translate into bad form in your blade actions.

The important thing that I have realized is that it is the HIP, not the shoulder, that really determines the angle of the shoulders. (Note: I am female. I have no idea if this explanation works for men.)

I am right-handed. In my en garde stance, my left hip can either be rotated "forward" or "tucked in". When my hip is rotated forward/out, it changes the way I put weight on my back leg, and it gives my back shoulder a tendency to be forward. It is possible to force my left shoulder back out of the way, but it requires physically turning my shoulder and back. I fenced this way for many years.

If I "tuck in" my left hip, it rotates my leg differently, and in turn causes my shoulders to take on a different rotation. My left shoulder is significantly further back, with no effort on my part whatsoever (so I am much more relaxed). This is the stance that I have developed relatively recently, and it works much better.

I could show you this very easily - harder to explain!

[SacFencer]

All else being equal, having your back shoulder further back reduces target area and is thus a good thing.

However, all else is not equal. There are tradeoffs involved, as you have already noticed. The most notable is that if you force your back shoulder to go back when it doesn't want to, you'll be tensing up your shoulders, which will translate into bad form in your blade actions.

The important thing that I have realized is that it is the HIP, not the shoulder, that really determines the angle of the shoulders. (Note: I am female. I have no idea if this explanation works for men.)

I am right-handed. In my en garde stance, my left hip can either be rotated "forward" or "tucked in". When my hip is rotated forward/out, it changes the way I put weight on my back leg, and it gives my back shoulder a tendency to be forward. It is possible to force my left shoulder back out of the way, but it requires physically turning my shoulder and back. I fenced this way for many years.

If I "tuck in" my left hip, it rotates my leg differently, and in turn causes my shoulders to take on a different rotation. My left shoulder is significantly further back, with no effort on my part whatsoever (so I am much more relaxed). This is the stance that I have developed relatively recently, and it works much better.

I could show you this very easily - harder to explain!

Thanks i will try that. Also i think i should look at some videos of People fencing saber to get a better understanding. I should give my old coach a call.

[edew]

I tend to tell random people to square their shoulders as much as they can towards me, especially when fencing me.

[Inquartata]

This is a stylistic thing, and there is no universal "right way".

For instance, the Polish style has the chest quite square to the opponent, often with a pronounced forward lean. The Italian style ( not much seen any more ) has the chest facing completely off to the left---that is, only the right flank and arm faces toward the opponent. This one takes some getting used to, it feels very artificial and restrictive to most people.

Unless you can persuade him to let you be you, you'll probably have to do it the way your coach wants you do do it. To do otherwise may hamper his teaching...

[epeemike81]

Ok so i have a problem. About a year ago i was fencing at the Sacromento Fencing Club ... the only place i can fence is at the REC Center

You can't figure out which of these two is a more credible source?

-m

[Redblade]

Think of building from the ground up: Start with your feet. Leading foot pointing to the opponent, of course, and trailing foot at an angle 45-90 degrees from that line (it's OK to turn your back foot forward a little from 90). Your feet will determine how your knees rest above them, which in turn will set your hips and then your chest ... assuming your en guarde position and blade extensions are relaxed. The latter point is important to remember. Many new fencers will start with a fairly good stance, only to skew their torso sideways with a locked shoulder and hyper-extended arm to make a touch.

Your chest will find its most natural facing if everything else is good position.

[IanSerotkin]

"Which is the right way to possition your chest when fencing saber"

I usually put my chest between my neck and my stomach. But only in saber.

[kalivor]

The "more square" position provides better stability and faster movement. There's little benefit in sabre to the "towards the wall" style, as you're no more difficult to hit.

That said, if you're not going to listen to your current coach, what's the point of getting the coaching? Perhaps, if your current instructor is unfamiliar with modern competitive sabre, you could show them a DVD, or bring them along to a competition? If they're good, they should be able to adapt what they're teaching you to what you're aiming for.

[SacFencer]

You can't figure out which of these two is a more credible source?

-m

read the whole story before you post please

( I moved a year ago away from sacramento )

[Peach]

read the whole story before you post please

( I moved a year ago away from sacramento )

He read the post. He's saying that your new coach is much less credible than your old one, and you need to use your judgment.

[epeemike81]

read the whole story before you post please

( I moved a year ago away from sacramento )

I DID read the whole story. if coaches at Sacramento told you to do it one way and somebody in a rec center is telling you to do it the other, listen to the ones with nationally ranked students.

-m

[edew]

I usually put my chest between my neck and my stomach. But only in saber.

In saber, I guess it doesn't matter. In foil, if you change those positions, you may be displacing target.

[KD5MDK]

It depends on what plane you put them in that order. Vertically, fine. Horizontally, you're likely covering.

[oso97]

There is another issue at play here, that has been touched upon by some (i.e. do what "feels better") but allow me to expand. The on-gaurd position is itself a function of certain biomechancial realities. Hips move in a certain way, as do knees, elbows, shoulders and backs. However, within those fundemntal biomechanical paradigms, there are individual variations that are going to affect the best position for a particular person. Another consideration is the dominant hand, foot and eye. The dominant hand affects weather we come on guard left or right handed (obviously). But, a right handed, right footed, right eyed person is going to have a different position for that on guard than a right handed, left footed, left eyed person. And each other combination is going to be different as well. A knowledgeable and experienced instructor is going to be able to evaluate this, and help an individual find the best (i.e. most balanced and easiest to move back and forth in) on gaurd position for him or her, within the biomechanical paradigm.

[Poulet]

There is another issue at play here, that has been touched upon by some (i.e. do what "feels better") but allow me to expand. The on-gaurd position is itself a function of certain biomechancial realities. Hips move in a certain way, as do knees, elbows, shoulders and backs. However, within those fundemntal biomechanical paradigms, there are individual variations that are going to affect the best position for a particular person. Another consideration is the dominant hand, foot and eye. The dominant hand affects weather we come on guard left or right handed (obviously). But, a right handed, right footed, right eyed person is going to have a different position for that on guard than a right handed, left footed, left eyed person. And each other combination is going to be different as well. A knowledgeable and experienced instructor is going to be able to evaluate this, and help an individual find the best (i.e. most balanced and easiest to move back and forth in) on gaurd position for him or her, within the biomechanical paradigm.

Oooh! Biomechanical! Paradigm! Shiny!

How to say the same thing in one thousandth the words:
Different people are built differently. Adjust for best fit.

[KD5MDK]

Or be Procrustean.

[Jason]

my "instuctor" who has never been in a compatition or a club tells me that i have to flatten my chest toward the wall like i would if i was doing foil. Doing this i was off ballance and wasnt able to block or attack as well i used to.

It's clear that you already know the answer to your question.

Try to find a place to fence that isn't a Rec Center.