Interesting Material notes from the Summer Nationals mailer

[KD5MDK]

I finally got my confirmation materials today, and was interested by several things I noticed in them about material rules and Summer Nationals. Some of these may be common knowledge I hadn't known about, others might be new.

1)

"Masks must have sewn-in bibs"

- Presumably LP X-Change Sabre masks will still be permitted, despite having a clamped in bib.

2)

"A fencer whose equipment does not have the special marks or fails upon reporting for a bout will receive a yellow card for the first offense and a red card for each subsequent offinse in that bout."

- I was pretty certain that "Absent Inspection Mark" was a Group 2 offense, with an immediate red card.

3) In sabre, the glove must overlap the lame, with if necessary a manchette over top of that. Settles an old argument here, I suppose.

4)

"Sabre blades marked with the year of manufacture and/or conforming to the new, stiffer FIE standards are required for all USFA competitions except Youth 10 competitions. The requirement for the new sabre blades will necessitate a flexability text at USFA National competitions. Even when the year is specified on the blades, this is not a guarantee that the blades will pass the flexability test."

This is the first I've heard of an actual flexability test being performed at USFA competitions. The wording of this sounds like it was put together when the S2000 standard was introduced, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is ignored in actuality, but if it isn't, what marking would be made to indicate a sabre blade had passed flexibility test?

[bigdawg2121]

Yep. They used to just use some gaudy color of nail polish to mark the base of the blade (just above the guard) whenever one had passed the flexibility test....but it's been forever and a day since I've ever seen anyone actually perform one.



Edit: Also the sewn in bibs isn't really new and probably will allow the X-Change masks. The original idea was to eliminate the old school Santelli type masks that attached (especially via snap) to the inside of the mask and left room for a blade to go through the gaps rather readily.

[Inquartata]

I haven't seen sabres tested since 1987. If they really plan to do it at Nationals they are insane, it will take all day to get through weapons control.

[KD5MDK]

Right, I know that the snap-in bibs were banned long ago. I was just entertained to see the rule prohibiting it would also ban the newest design of FIE mask.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

3) In sabre, the glove must overlap the lame, with if necessary a manchette over top of that. Settles an old argument here, I suppose.

So stupid. The USFA again making up rules that are unnecessary and certainly not internationally accepted. I have yet to see anyone provide a decent explanation of why you should wear your glove over your lame.

[rcmatthews]

Because my glove would be a tight fit under my lame.

Possible to ensure that people dont have lames which are able to ride up their sleeves easily.

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I haven't seen sabres tested since 1987. If they really plan to do it at Nationals they are insane, it will take all day to get through weapons control.

Theydefinitely tested sabers for flexibility when the s2000 requirement first appeared so that everybody with legal 98 or 99 blades could still use them...as I recall they didn't really stop until a bit into 2001 when they realized it was annoying and time consuming and just required that you have
s2000s.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by rcmatthews

Possible to ensure that people dont have lames which are able to ride up their sleeves easily.

But if you wear your glove over your jacket, under the lame, then you wear a manchette. In fact, you get better contact between the manchette and the lame if you wear the glove under the lame....

I'll quit now--I've frothed at the mouth on this particular topic more than enough, but it still irks the crap out of me.

[Inquartata]

See? You can't resist battering deceased equines occasionally, either.

I wear my glove under my lamé, except at competitions. I see no real point in wearing it over, but it's not particularly inconvenient, either. I shrug.

Of course, those who use lamé-cuffed gloves needn't worry about it.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

2)- I was pretty certain that "Absent Inspection Mark" was a Group 2 offense, with an immediate red card.

Yea, I noticed this myself last night when I was going through my email that had built up over the weekend. Could make for some interesting appeals!

[brtech]

I noticed it too, and brought it to the attention of Ted Li, who will be head armorer for the entire Summer Nationals. He told me that the actual policy has always been that if the blade does not show an S2000 (or more recent) stamp, then we would do a flex test. He will make sure that flex test capability is available should we need it. Blade flexibility is often tested at World Championships, and since we hold them in the U.S, we have the equipment to do a flexibility test. It's not too hard to rig something up if you need to, a text jig merely makes it more convenient.

All you do is clamp the blade horizontal, mark where the tip is, hang a weight on it, and see how much it changes. The test jig just provides the clamps, weight, and ruler to make this easy.

The other interesting tidbit is that, as usual, we will be testing equipment on Thursday. The paperwork says that we're only testing equipment then for people fencing on the first day of competition (i.e. Friday). Ted says that if we have a long line, that's the way it will be. If the line is short, we'll test other fencer's gear.

Generally speaking, the line is long every morning, and we may segregate fencers into those fencing that morning, and give priority to testing their equipment.

[Mergs]

Originally Posted by sabreur

So stupid. The USFA again making up rules that are unnecessary and certainly not internationally accepted. I have yet to see anyone provide a decent explanation of why you should wear your glove over your lame.

I would say that is because it is a safety issue. A manchete doesn't have the protecive properties of the cuff of a glove, therefore a blade could penetrate it, and slide up the sleeve of the lame` and penetrate the jacket because there would not be the ability of the blade flex and release energy.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

3) In sabre, the glove must overlap the lame, with if necessary a manchette over top of that. Settles an old argument here, I suppose.

Rubbish! I have pontificated against this before. What is important is that the 5 cm of conductive material on the inside of the glove OR manchette must be in contact with the Lame. Or you are cheating.

Their reproducing old mistakes does not settle any arguments. It just reveals that the people copying old mistaken instructions don't know fencing.

If you follow this stupid argument to its inane conclusion then you have to force Foil and Epee fencers to wear Sabre Lames so they are as safe as the Sabre fencers.

[SFfencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

2)- I was pretty certain that "Absent Inspection Mark" was a Group 2 offense, with an immediate red card.

see the usfa website...

Originally Posted by USFA Website

Please note the following error in the Nationals Confirmation Materials:
"A fencer whose equipment does not have the special marks or fails upon reporting for a bout will receive a yellow card for the first offense and a red card for each subsequent offense in that bout. "

It should read:
"A fencer whose equipment does not have Nationals control marks will receive a red card when presenting him/herself to strip and must replace the equipment with item(s) bearing the Nationals control marks."

[Sboard1019]

As to the Glove Over the Lame, i would bet money it is so that it is easy for the judge to tell if the glove is over the jacket... ie a blade cant slide up. I know it would be a pain in the arse to make fencers roll up their lame sleeves to check ot take off their lame.