Questions About Epee Grip

[BySword]

I was reading the USFA rules, and I saw in m.4.3 said
"...However, at épée, orthopaedic grips, whether metal or not,may not be covered with leather or any material whichcould hide wires or switches."

doesnt this mean taping a epee ortho grip would be illegal? I personally use a belgian grip and it's heavily(so heavy that it's about 3/16 inch thick) taped at the place where the little finger is position.

I have never encountered any problems regarding this taping since in all the local tournaments I went to, no one checks the grip. But I am going to Georgia Game(which will be more formal and stricter, I assume?), so I am concerned about this.

Anyone has any idea and/or experience about this?

Another question is, in epee and epee only, do you guys prefer a slightly bigger grip or a slightly smaller grip than the perfect size you want it to be? For example, my size sits between the large and the median visc. grip, but I like large better.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by BySword

doesnt this mean taping a epee ortho grip would be illegal?

Assuming the USFA rules are like the FIE rules, then yes (strictly speaking). But I've seen people using tape so I suppose it would depend on the level of competition you were entering, and how rigurous they would follow the rules.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by BySword

I was reading the USFA rules, and I saw in m.4.3 said
"...However, at épée, orthopaedic grips, whether metal or not,may not be covered with leather or any material whichcould hide wires or switches."

doesnt this mean taping a epee ortho grip would be illegal? I personally use a belgian grip and it's heavily(so heavy that it's about 3/16 inch thick) taped at the place where the little finger is position.

You have it correct...taping an ortho grip on an epee is illegal...of course, you can just as easily hide a switch on a French, but the tape rule doesn't apply to the French.

Best to remove the tape and get used to the feel before you go. And if you have tape holding your wires down inside the guard, it's illegal unless the tape is clear (because opaque or gaff tape could hide a switch, while clear tape would allow the director to see the wires.)

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

You have it correct...taping an ortho grip on an epee is illegal...of course, you can just as easily hide a switch on a French, but the tape rule doesn't apply to the French.

People don't understand why the tape is band with an Orthopedic grip and not a French. It is simple, yes you could hide a switch on a French, but could you reliably use it. On a Orthopedic, you could put the switch on the bottom part of the prong, since the handle fixes the position of the hand, you will always know where the switch is in relation to your hand.

Since with a French your hand can move, the switch may be anywhere in relation to your hand, you might even set it off accidently. There is a logical explanation for their reason for this rule.

[keropie]

Hmm... I'd like to think that if I put a switch under some tape on a french grip, I could find it awfully fast, and I've never even trained to find it. Which I would if I had a switch under there I needed to get to.

I think the more likely reasoning behind the rule is that a lot of fench grips come wrapped in something (leather for instance) and it would be harder to police given that. And the leather wrapped french grip is awfully traditional, so it's hard to ban it.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by keropie

Hmm... I'd like to think that if I put a switch under some tape on a french grip, I could find it awfully fast, and I've never even trained to find it. Which I would if I had a switch under there I needed to get to.

I think the more likely reasoning behind the rule is that a lot of fench grips come wrapped in something (leather for instance) and it would be harder to police given that. And the leather wrapped french grip is awfully traditional, so it's hard to ban it.

Yes you could, but maybe too fast. You pick up your weapon and the light goes off. It wouldn't be harder to police it, those handles would be illegal, if you included French in the ban. There is no word tape in the rules (M.4.3), while there is rule on leather. The rules says you can not have leather or anything else that would hide a switch. So if French were included, there would be no problem enforcing the rule. There are a lot of orthopedic handle that have a plastic or some other coating for Foil. They are banned for Epee. You might work on your logic.

[KD5MDK]

When I see a french grip with tape on it, I usually give it a squeeze to see if anything funny happens while I'm inspecting the weapon.

[BySword]

it says leather and anything else that can hide a switch?
if we enforce this on french grip, that just meant we will have to all switch to rubber french grip.

[KD5MDK]

No, because rubber could hide a switch too. It would mean we'd have to move to all metal, wood (or bone?) grips, I'd think. However, the rule specifically does not apply to french grips.

[keropie]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You might work on your logic.

And perhaps you need to chill. If YOU can't avoid hitting a particular part of your grip when YOU fence, then it is perhaps a good thing YOU are an armorer. I am not a particularly adept french grip fencer, and yet I have no doubts that I could avoid a place where I'd put a switch, and even fewer doubts that someone who actually uses the grip to fence could do better.

Expecting consistency out of the rules for fencing is purely foolish. The rulebook has about the same consistency as plum pudding (or the bible, if you prefer). There is no reason that a competitive international fencer who uses a french grip couldn't hide a button under tape and use it. If your logic for the difference in rules re: grips is based on that premise, your logic may be sound, but the basis if flawed.

Additionally, if you want to be the guy that jumps on people for 'poor logic' in posts, I'd suggest learning/applying the rules of grammar and spelling to yours. For instance, 'tape is banned on Orthopedic', questions ('could you reliably use it') end in question marks, and pronouns ('for their reason') have antecedents within the sentence in which they are used.

I do feel, by the way, that the reason that this rule does not apply to French grips is that they would have to be a single solid piece to the core to not have something that could hide a switch (leather, rubber, separate piece of plastic, etc.), and not some idea that a switch would be 'hard to use' on a French grip.

[ThatReallyHurt]

Anyone around here ever painted their grips after mixing some painters' sand into the paint? I've been looking for more friction on the grip and have been told that that's one way to go about it...

[BySword]

Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt

Anyone around here ever painted their grips after mixing some painters' sand into the paint? I've been looking for more friction on the grip and have been told that that's one way to go about it...

never try this. I score the place on my grip where my fingers place

[telkanuru]

Does anyone else think the sentance is being read incorrectly?

"...However, at épée, orthopaedic grips, whether metal or not,may not be covered with leather or any material which could hide wires or switches."

To me, it seems to be banning any tape or materiel that would be able to hide a switch apparatus, not a generic ban on tape. I mean, you could hide a switch under a back prong, but without wires going to it which were not hidden, it would be rather useless. It seems to me that if the tape dosn't go all the way down to the guard it should be fine...

[KD5MDK]

Unless some clever person drilled holes in the grip to run their wires to the switch.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by keropie

And perhaps you need to chill. If YOU can't avoid hitting a particular part of your grip when YOU fence, then it is perhaps a good thing YOU are an armorer. I am not a particularly adept french grip fencer, and yet I have no doubts that I could avoid a place where I'd put a switch, and even fewer doubts that someone who actually uses the grip to fence could do better.

Expecting consistency out of the rules for fencing is purely foolish. The rulebook has about the same consistency as plum pudding (or the bible, if you prefer). There is no reason that a competitive international fencer who uses a french grip couldn't hide a button under tape and use it. If your logic for the difference in rules re: grips is based on that premise, your logic may be sound, but the basis if flawed.

Additionally, if you want to be the guy that jumps on people for 'poor logic' in posts, I'd suggest learning/applying the rules of grammar and spelling to yours. For instance, 'tape is banned on Orthopedic', questions ('could you reliably use it') end in question marks, and pronouns ('for their reason') have antecedents within the sentence in which they are used.

I do feel, by the way, that the reason that this rule does not apply to French grips is that they would have to be a single solid piece to the core to not have something that could hide a switch (leather, rubber, separate piece of plastic, etc.), and not some idea that a switch would be 'hard to use' on a French grip.

You're right, my spelling is atrocious. They do make solid French handles. Maybe to be more logical, the FIE should extend the ban to French handles.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Unless some clever person drilled holes in the grip to run their wires to the switch.

I think you are severely underestimating the possiblility of someone undertaking such an endevour while making it remain undetectable. Plus, a ref/armourer can always ask you to remove the tape to verify...

[KD5MDK]

I presume you mean overestimating?

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

I think you are severely underestimating the possiblility of someone undertaking such an endevour while making it remain undetectable. Plus, a ref/armourer can always ask you to remove the tape to verify...

From some of the taping of handles I have seen, it would take longer to remove the tape, verify there is no switch and put the tape back on, then an bout would last and we are talking Epee.

It is easier to just say no covering.