Cracked cup source of intermittent white light?

[Chafunkta]

I decided to rewire a weapon that was giving me occasional white lights (especially during beats or when flicking). When I took the weapon apart I discovered that the cup that the wire sits in was cracked, and the wire connector (for serious lack of a better term) inside the cup was loose and fell out easily. Could this be the culprit for the white lights?

[KD5MDK]

To be specific, you were rewiring a foil, no?

The answer is yes, as anything that interrups the closed circuit between the B and C lines (wire and blade) causes a white light, unless it is connected to the A line on the other side.

[Purple Fencer]

KD beat me to it....it's distressingly common, especially in wires where the wire is crimped in to the cap instead of being soldered.

[Chafunkta]

Purple, I'm disappointed. You're almost always the first to respond to my posts.

And to clarify, yes, it is foil I'm talking about.

I never considered that problem to cause the intermittent light. I'd like to have a checklist of all the things that could possibly cause it, because I see it happen in my club all the time.

By the way, Purple, why would it matter, as far as the cup is concerned, if the wire was soldered or crimped? I'm talking about the plastic cup being cracked.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Chafunkta

Purple, I'm disappointed. You're almost always the first to respond to my posts.

And to clarify, yes, it is foil I'm talking about.

I'm working on a mass email to about 600+ clubs worldwide (mostly the US, but also Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) to pimp my new gloves...it'll go out when the order for Craig and Matt arrive...there are some slight design changes and I want the picture to be up to date.

I never considered that problem to cause the intermittent light. I'd like to have a checklist of all the things that could possibly cause it, because I see it happen in my club all the time.

By the way, Purple, why would it matter, as far as the cup is concerned, if the wire was soldered or crimped? I'm talking about the plastic cup being cracked.

Not in and of itself, but a cracked or broken cup could allow the contact to move around and cause a fatigue break between it and the wire. A crimped connection would be more suceptible to such a break.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Chafunkta

Purple, I'm disappointed. You're almost always the first to respond to my posts.

Some of us are no more fond of sleeping during the night than others. And he's 2 time zones behind me.

And to clarify, yes, it is foil I'm talking about.

The reference to wires and white lights made it about mandatory, but I like to remind people there are other weapons out there.

I never considered that problem to cause the intermittent light. I'd like to have a checklist of all the things that could possibly cause it, because I see it happen in my club all the time.

The problem is that ANY disconnect between the B and C lines causes a white light, and almost all of them are capable of being intermittent. For example, to pick a rediculous but possible one: Suppose the blade broke near the tip, where it's covered in tape, and the wire was intact. Some of the time the two blade parts could be touching , and others they wouldn't. That would be an example of the very rare C line break in the weapon.

To start at the back of the weapon and work forward, assuming that the bodycord and everything with it have tested good, off the top of my head:
1) The 2 prong connector's holes are too wide for the body cord, and it is wiggiling around inside of them.
2) The body cord socket holes are rusty, dirty or corroded (unlikely)
3) The bayonet socket's spring is weak and isn't holding the bayonet connector firmly against the contact plates.
4) The handle is loose, and the socket isn't always in good contact with the guard/blade (this is fairly common, actually)
5) The wire to the socket is broken at the socket.
6) The wire at the socket is broken where it got pinched inside the spaghetti tubing between the socket and the guard.
7) The wire got pinched inside the spaghetti tubing where it ran between the blade and the guard. (Note that if this happened outside the spaghetti tubing, the weapon would just fail to register any touches.)
8) Too many bends of the blade have broken the wire inside the groove, but the glue prevents it from grounding out.
9) The barrel has come loose and broken the wire where it leave the blade.
10) The blade is broken like I described above.
Then there's all the things that can go wrong with a tip: Dirt, cracked cup, tip screws give way and tip goes flying off into space, etc.

By the way, Purple, why would it matter, as far as the cup is concerned, if the wire was soldered or crimped? I'm talking about the plastic cup being cracked.

Manufacturers who use soldered connections are probably more likely to use quality cups as well, which are less likely to crack.

[DHCJr]

This is Foil, not Epee. It is a little difficult to crimp a Foil wire using a Top Hat. They are soldered. Only in Epee do they crimp.

One possible, but of course not the only one, is the length of the threads. If there are too many threads, they can pierce the plastic. The trouble is this can also cause the opposite problem of putting a continuous short in the weapon.

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Some of us are no more fond of sleeping during the night than others. And he's 2 time zones behind me.


The reference to wires and white lights made it about mandatory, but I like to remind people there are other weapons out there.

The problem is that ANY disconnect between the B and C lines causes a white light, and almost all of them are capable of being intermittent. For example, to pick a rediculous but possible one: Suppose the blade broke near the tip, where it's covered in tape, and the wire was intact. Some of the time the two blade parts could be touching , and others they wouldn't. That would be an example of the very rare C line break in the weapon.

To start at the back of the weapon and work forward, assuming that the bodycord and everything with it have tested good, off the top of my head:
1) The 2 prong connector's holes are too wide for the body cord, and it is wiggiling around inside of them.
2) The body cord socket holes are rusty, dirty or corroded (unlikely)
3) The bayonet socket's spring is weak and isn't holding the bayonet connector firmly against the contact plates.
4) The handle is loose, and the socket isn't always in good contact with the guard/blade (this is fairly common, actually)
5) The wire to the socket is broken at the socket.
6) The wire at the socket is broken where it got pinched inside the spaghetti tubing between the socket and the guard.
7) The wire got pinched inside the spaghetti tubing where it ran between the blade and the guard. (Note that if this happened outside the spaghetti tubing, the weapon would just fail to register any touches.)
8) Too many bends of the blade have broken the wire inside the groove, but the glue prevents it from grounding out.
9) The barrel has come loose and broken the wire where it leave the blade.
10) The blade is broken like I described above.
Then there's all the things that can go wrong with a tip: Dirt, cracked cup, tip screws give way and tip goes flying off into space, etc.


Manufacturers who use soldered connections are probably more likely to use quality cups as well, which are less likely to crack.

Great answer! Good Job!

Gary Spruill

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

This is Foil, not Epee. It is a little difficult to crimp a Foil wire using a Top Hat. They are soldered. Only in Epee do they crimp.

I'm not entirely sure how this worked, but somebody was talking on here about their coach doing things "old-school Eastern European (Russian?)"ish and just coiling stripped leftover wire inside the barrel instead of having a cup. That couldn't work for epee, so assuming the inside of the barrel was insulated it must be foil.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'm not entirely sure how this worked, but somebody was talking on here about their coach doing things "old-school Eastern European (Russian?)"ish and just coiling stripped leftover wire inside the barrel instead of having a cup. That couldn't work for epee, so assuming the inside of the barrel was insulated it must be foil.

Some of the manufactured wires used this method. What was done was about 1/2" was bared made into a circle that fit into the cup and soldered the end to the circle making a solid ring. In fact this is how some of the ItalianEpee wires are made. Instead of two post, there is a post in the center and a ring on the outside. The ring is connected to the B, while the post is connected to the A.

The spring sits on the ring completing the circuit.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

1) The 2 prong connector's holes are too wide for the body cord, and it is wiggiling around inside of them.
2) The body cord socket holes are rusty, dirty or corroded (unlikely)
3) The bayonet socket's spring is weak and isn't holding the bayonet connector firmly against the contact plates.
4) The handle is loose, and the socket isn't always in good contact with the guard/blade (this is fairly common, actually)
5) The wire to the socket is broken at the socket.
6) The wire at the socket is broken where it got pinched inside the spaghetti tubing between the socket and the guard.
7) The wire got pinched inside the spaghetti tubing where it ran between the blade and the guard. (Note that if this happened outside the spaghetti tubing, the weapon would just fail to register any touches.)
8) Too many bends of the blade have broken the wire inside the groove, but the glue prevents it from grounding out.
9) The barrel has come loose and broken the wire where it leave the blade.
10) The blade is broken like I described above.

11) The barrel has come loose and is not always in good contact with the blade