Body cord problems

[ysbadadden]

Some of my club's body cords don't work with some of the reels. The continuity in the BC's is good. The reels are good. I've tried spreading those annoying little basket flanges, or whatever you call them. The BCs work fine on everybody else's reels, and the reels work fine with everybody else's BCs (competition experience).

What next?

[Purple Fencer]

What brand of reel and what brand of cord, first off.....

You say you've checked continuity om the cords...explain HOW you did so. Sometimes it's a matter of technique or diagnostic gear...or lack thereof...

[canthidefromme]

Spit on the connectors of the bodycord. Well... spit on your fingers then transfer to the bc. Unsanitary but it works temporarily.

[Monash_Armourer]

I'm guesing that the combnation of the body cords resistance when paired with some of the reels are too high.
Grab on ohm-meter and check the resistance of the reels and your body cords
Ideally they should both be less than 1 ohm. Just because everything conducts, doesn't mean it's anywhere near to being in the ideal range.
The easiest thing you can try, is tightening the screws inside at both end of the body cord,, and seeing whether that works a bit better
Hope that helps.

Darcy.

[KD5MDK]

I wouldn't trust any component that had an individual resistance of 50ohms, yet the system as a whole ought to work at well over 100. Unless by test he meant "used one of those little boxes with a light on it that turns on if there's a connection at all".

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Monash_Armourer

I'm guesing that the combnation of the body cords resistance when paired with some of the reels are too high.
Grab on ohm-meter and check the resistance of the reels and your body cords
Ideally they should both be less than 1 ohm. Just because everything conducts, doesn't mean it's anywhere near to being in the ideal range.
The easiest thing you can try, is tightening the screws inside at both end of the body cord,, and seeing whether that works a bit better
Hope that helps.

Darcy.

That's why I asked how he tested the cords...holding an ohmmeter lead to the pins isn't nearly as reliable as using a DeChaine box.

[ysbadadden]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

That's why I asked how he tested the cords...holding an ohmmeter lead to the pins isn't nearly as reliable as using a DeChaine box.

What's a DeChaine box? (Not questioning, just don't know.)
Anyway, I tested by attaching each line (A, B, C) successively to pairs of alligator clips across an ohmmeter and wiggling.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

What's a DeChaine box? (Not questioning, just don't know.)
Anyway, I tested by attaching each line (A, B, C) successively to pairs of alligator clips across an ohmmeter and wiggling.

A DeChaine box is an armorer's text box designed and built (in many MANY iterations) by US armorer and US SEMI rep, Dan DeChaine. It type of box you see the armorer use to test a body cord at a NAC or sectional level event....they're invaluable to an armorer.

Testing as you did will show if there's a partial wire break, but not necesarrily if there's not a good connection between the wire and the screws in the pin. What was the resistance in each line? You're only allowed 1 ohm each.

Like Monash said...tighten the screws....tighter contact meanslower resistance. In fact, you may want to pull the wires and check for corrosion before reconnecting.

[KD5MDK]

Absent defect in the testing methodology, I'd say it's the interface between the cord and the reel, ie the pins are still too bent down.

[Monash_Armourer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I wouldn't trust any component that had an individual resistance of 50ohms, yet the system as a whole ought to work at well over 100. Unless by test he meant "used one of those little boxes with a light on it that turns on if there's a connection at all".

Nothing should be anywhere near 50 to 100 ohms, even if the box can function with that high resistance. All your bodywires should be well under 1 ohm if everything is working right, and you should check your reels if anything is more than a few ohms.

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

That's why I asked how he tested the cords...holding an ohmmeter lead to the pins isn't nearly as reliable as using a DeChaine box.

I can't say I'm familiar with the DeChaine box, and I would be quite suprised if there was anything that you can't do with proper knowloegde of how to use testing equipment and a halfway decent digital multimeter (I really hope you're using aligator clips as well).

For more information on bodywire maintenance, I'll point you here:
http://www.leonpaul.com/armoury/bodywires.htm

Darcy.

[DHCJr]

There are 2 problems using a Digital meter and the alligator clips. First unless you have a very expensive digital, the refresh rate is not fast enough for mechanical connections, which bodycords are. A $20 (U.S) Analog meter will work better on the mechanical connections of reel, floor cord, bodycord and weapon, then a $100 Digital. Now if you are working on a modern box, a Digital is the only way to go.

The problem with using alligator clips is you have a very good connection, which would not catch the problem that a dedicated box, like the one designed by Dan and others. They are designed for Worse Case connections. The holes for the plug are set for the largest size connector, either on the reel or weapon. If it passes on one these dedicated boxes, using an Analog meter, you know it will work on Any combination of reel, floor cord and weapon.

[ysbadadden]

The body cords are Chinese LP bayonet knockoffs. The reels are Millenium. I think that the problem must be with the pins, because the system malfunctions when the fencers are moving on the strip, and shaking the 2-prong socket, and the wire at the 2-prong socket, doesn't do anything, while shaking the rear connection sometimes produces a buzz from the machine. There's no percentage in changing the reel socket, right. So do I bend the pins so that they sit at an angle?

I use an analog ohmmeter, and the resistance is...I dunno, the needle goes all the way to the right and stays there. That's what it's supposed to do, right?

And where does one acquire a DeChaine box?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

The body cords are Chinese LP bayonet knockoffs.

There's the problem right there!!! These are the blue ones that Uhlmann sells, right? They've had problems since day one (if you're gonna copy something, do it right!) This is the reason the only LP stule bayo plugs and sockets I sell ARE Leon Pauls!

The reels are Millenium. I think that the problem must be with the pins, because the system malfunctions when the fencers are moving on the strip, and shaking the 2-prong socket, and the wire at the 2-prong socket, doesn't do anything, while shaking the rear connection sometimes produces a buzz from the machine. There's no percentage in changing the reel socket, right. So do I bend the pins so that they sit at an angle?

Sounds line a bad connection between the 3 pin end of the cord and the recieving socket in the reel....and I highly doubt it's in the reel...Favero knows it's stuff. More likely it's in the pins in the cord.

I use an analog ohmmeter, and the resistance is...I dunno, the needle goes all the way to the right and stays there. That's what it's supposed to do, right?

It's supposed to show under 1 ohm of resistance...but simply connecting the leads to the cord lines isn't enough...you need to simulate the stresses on the cord from use by wiggling them and seeing if there's a continuity break...tough to do with an ohmmeter lead.

And where does one acquire a DeChaine box?

From Dan himself...but be advised they're expensive (but worth it)...my box cost $800 and included the test box itself, the protective carrying case, an octopus cord (3 pin at one end, branching off into multiple lines with different connectors at the other...so I can use the same cord to test epees, and foils with 2-pin sockets, LP sockets, and the 2 current Italian sockets..as well as other testing gear.

I don't know if Dan has any in stock right now...I'll have to ask him.

Here's a picture of my box.

[Monash_Armourer]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

There are 2 problems using a Digital meter and the alligator clips. First unless you have a very expensive digital, the refresh rate is not fast enough for mechanical connections, which bodycords are. A $20 (U.S) Analog meter will work better on the mechanical connections of reel, floor cord, bodycord and weapon, then a $100 Digital. Now if you are working on a modern box, a Digital is the only way to go.

The problem with using alligator clips is you have a very good connection, which would not catch the problem that a dedicated box, like the one designed by Dan and others. They are designed for Worse Case connections. The holes for the plug are set for the largest size connector, either on the reel or weapon. If it passes on one these dedicated boxes, using an Analog meter, you know it will work on Any combination of reel, floor cord and weapon.

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

From Dan himself...but be advised they're expensive (but worth it)...my box cost $800 and included the test box itself, the protective carrying case, an octopus cord (3 pin at one end, branching off into multiple lines with different connectors at the other...so I can use the same cord to test epees, and foils with 2-pin sockets, LP sockets, and the 2 current Italian sockets..as well as other testing gear.

While I will admit a testing box that simplifies everything such as this would be more than handy to have around, I do not think I and many others could justify either personally fronting $800, or getting our clubs to do so for us (in whole or in part) when we could buy both a high end multimeter where you will have few to nil response rate issues and a decent analogue one to boot for 1/4th of the price.

If you commonly encounter issues with pins not fitting correctly or being too loose to make decent connections, you could probably pick up a few banana plugs and leads to attach your multimeter to, and mount them in a block of wood for convenience, for next to nothing.

I can wholly understand why both you Purple Fencer and DHCJr and perhaps a few others would want one of these machines, as testing high volumes of bodycords for competitions is somewhat of a nightmare on it's own, and I can see how the DeChaine box would make this a much simpler, far quicker process as opposed to using a multimeter.

But for somebody who only needs to test a few cords, jackets and assorted other bits and pieces without being pressed for time, $600 is a mighty big saving. In my books, that's a damn lot of coffee.

[mrbiggs]

Make a ghetto tester using two epee sockets and a normal ohmmeter, with maybe a switch or two. Not quite as good as the dechaine box, but pretty close. And for about $700 less.

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

The body cords are Chinese LP bayonet knockoffs. ?

This is a problem within itself here.

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

I think that the problem must be with the pins, because the system malfunctions when the fencers are moving on the strip, and shaking the 2-prong socket, and the wire at the 2-prong socket, doesn't do anything, while shaking the rear connection sometimes produces a buzz from the machine.. .

I think you are getting closer here! If you are getting a signal while shaking the reel end connector and body cord, most likely its the body cord. Not always, but most times.

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

There's no percentage in changing the reel socket, right. So do I bend the pins so that they sit at an angle.

Dont bend the pens, take a small screwdriver and spread out the pins, or small collars that cover the pins. This will make a more solid connection in the reel end sockets.

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

I use an analog ohmmeter, and the resistance is...I dunno, the needle goes all the way to the right and stays there. That's what it's supposed to do, right.

Yes, most meters are set up for lower resesidency to go to the right. You are looking for (0) zero on the meter. How far it is from zero is how much resesidency you have. Most reels (depending on how new they are) will give you between the reel end and the plug to the scoring box end on the floor cord a 1 to 2 ohms resesidency.

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

And where does one acquire a DeChaine box.

Dan DeChaine sells these boxes. If you are intresed, send either purplefencer or myself a message and we will get you in contact with him. Understand, this is a major investment for someone/club/national team to own. I personally own the three meter version of the Universal Box. It was in the $2000 US dollar range. Please understand that in this thread, there are those that say a $20 analog meter will do the same. They are correct. Yet also understand that I made this investment to use for the next 30+ years. Again, if you want one, send us a message.

Gary Spruill

[KD5MDK]

For the slightly cheaper market, here is a nearly as good Gary Box:
http://sword-masters.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1372

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

For the slightly cheaper market, here is a nearly as good Gary Box:
http://sword-masters.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1372

You are just way to funny
Yes, I make this box for Scott and I will be the first to admit, it does not hold a candle to my Universal Box Dan made for me. You've seen it.

One thing has changed on my box you listed above, the price! It's been $145 now for about 6 months. Scott just has not changed the web page. Parts for these things have gone up at least 20% in the last year. Copper keeps going up and up.

Gary

[DHCJr]

Dan himself would suggest you should build your own box. The boxes are worth what they cost, but as mentioned it is over-kill for most. Sam as the most simple box Dan makes.

The only two problems I see are the lack of an A-C short and the limited labeling. Both are minor problems.