Body cord problems

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Dan himself would suggest you should build your own box. The boxes are worth what they cost, but as mentioned it is over-kill for most. Sam as the most simple box Dan makes..

Donald, totally agree with you. I looked at it as an investment. A very long investment. Worth every penny to me.

Originally Posted by DHCJr

The only two problems I see are the lack of an A-C short and the limited labeling. Both are minor problems.

Are you referring to Sam's box, or the one I build for Scott at Swordmasters?

If it's Sam's, Dan fixed that problem on the newer one meter boxes.

If its on the box I build, your correct. Was not the market I was going after.

Gary Spruill

[DHCJr]

If you look at the box Sam has, it has all 6 combinations. You know which is the input, where to connect to the clip, what is the maximum resistance for each piece of equipment, by color code. If Sam had shown the picture of the front, each of the plugs would be labeled for what they were.

On yours, I can guess where you plug in and where you clip the lame' clip and I know the maximum resistance. So as I said, a minor problem.

The biggest reason for the expense of Dan's box is the quality of the parts. Many of the parts are Mil Spec with a center scale of 5 ohms. Which brings up a point, you talk about a 10 Ohms scale as if there were multiple scales. The picture appears to support that, but I don't see a knob to change the scales. A minor advantage of Dan's is one custom scale, which makes a easier and faster readings.

As far as the number of connectors, that is really not a problem. As both you and Dan have created adaptors for others. For Sam and for most Armorers working only domestically, those 3 connectors (1 Epee/2 Foil) can cover over 95%. Even international adding 1 more adaptor would cover over 90%, and 2 more would cover about 99%. Space is a consideration. Why have connectors, you never use. Even on the box I use, I only have 4 connectors and 2 adaptors.

Even $125 might be too much for some. A solution would be a box with the same controls and connectors as yours or Dan, but without the meter. This would be pluged into an external meter of their own. The problem is that it is almost as much work as yours. I know, that is what I have usually built.

As a side note, Yuron Abramson made a suggestion to Dan, that he has incorporated in his latest 1 meter box. A seventh position that tests are 3 lines at one in series.

For fencers and most Armorers, I would recomend the Sword Master over Dan's because Dan's would be overkill for them.

As an ending note, I know of an Armorer who was selling something similar for a little less than half the Sword Master price that used a K-ohm meter. For obvious reasons, I won't mention that Armorers name, nor suggest anyone gets it.

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

On yours, I can guess where you plug in and where you clip the lame' clip and I know the maximum resistance. So as I said, a minor problem..

Everything on the right side is the reel end. Everything on the left side is the weapon side. Easy enough.

Originally Posted by DHCJr

The biggest reason for the expense of Dan's box is the quality of the parts. Many of the parts are Mil Spec with a center scale of 5 ohms. Which brings up a point, you talk about a 10 Ohms scale as if there were multiple scales. The picture appears to support that, but I don't see a knob to change the scales. A minor advantage of Dan's is one custom scale, which makes a easier and faster readings...

I dont remember bringing up a 10 ohm scale, but mine is set on a R x 1 factor. Change the scales: you dont see a knob because its black and hard to see in the picture.

Originally Posted by DHCJr

As far as the number of connectors, that is really not a problem. As both you and Dan have created adaptors for others. For Sam and for most Armorers working only domestically, those 3 connectors (1 Epee/2 Foil) can cover over 95%. Even international adding 1 more adaptor would cover over 90%, and 2 more would cover about 99%. Space is a consideration. Why have connectors, you never use. Even on the box I use, I only have 4 connectors and 2 adaptors....

I no longer make the LP Bayonet adapter for it. I build it right into the box now. It's a pain to do, but???

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Even $125 might be too much for some. A solution would be a box with the same controls and connectors as yours or Dan, but without the meter. This would be pluged into an external meter of their own. The problem is that it is almost as much work as yours. I know, that is what I have usually built.....

Donald, I built the box you are referring to above. The biggest problem I had was that most folks did not understand how to plug the box into the meter? Simple I know, but this is what I got. Hence: put the darn meter into the box.
The $125 issue, well, its $145 right now, and maybe going up. Parts just keep going up and up. The market I am looking to get from this box is not an experienced Armourer, yet the average Joe that can check his/her stuff before going to a meet or, that really young Armourer that owns a $4.00 multitester and his club made him the head tech because of his new tool. Wanted to give that guy just a little bit more to work with to help the line. The pricing on my box: Dan tells me everytime I see him that I am not charging enough, well, I am not making it to make a huge profit. I wanted folks to have something dependable in they're hands that was comfortable and easy to use. Thats it. There is my market. I sell about 10 to 12 of these a month.

Originally Posted by DHCJr

For fencers and most Armorers, I would recomend the Sword Master over Dan's because Dan's would be overkill for them..

Well thank you, but I still say Dan's is the best test box in the world. Mine (Twister Box) has its place in the market. If I knew of a Armorer that wanted a superior box, I would & do send them to Dan everytime.

Originally Posted by DHCJr

As an ending note, I know of an Armorer who was selling something similar for a little less than half the Sword Master price that used a K-ohm meter. For obvious reasons, I won't mention that Armorers name, nor suggest anyone gets it.

Sorry, I dont have a clue who that would be? I just know how much I have in each one of these boxes, the parts alone keep going up and up. I spend about 8 hours on each box if I build them in a assembly line type fashion. In my opinion, $145 (less than a good weapon) is well worth it.

Thanks for your thoughts on my box. When others give you they're thoughts, makes you set back and think,,,maybe???

Gary Spruill

[DHCJr]

I knew which side was which, but someone not as experienced might have a problem. The nicest thing about Dan's is if you can read, you can use it. The 10 Ohms I got from the SwordMaster web site.

I meant for noone to know who that Armorer is. I wanted to warn people to watch for that, so they don't pay for something that is no better than a light box. They kept the price down by using a cheap multimeter as the box and built the connection in the meter.

I am like Dan when I build a box. I also label and color code to make it easier in how to hook up a meter.

Dan's been told the same thing about his box, that he doesn't charge enough and he gives the same answer as you. Yours is a good box.

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I am like Dan when I build a box. I also label and color code to make it easier in how to hook up a meter.

Dan's been told the same thing about his box, that he doesn't charge enough and he gives the same answer as you. Yours is a good box.

Thank you Donald.

Gary Spruill

[brtech]

There is a theory that one armorer evaluates another, in part, by his test box.
While we all really appreciate Dan's boxes, there is something to be said for building your own. When you build your own, especially when you are just starting out, the act of building it teaches you a whole lot about armory work. And if it works, you really understand a lot more than a class teaches you about how body cords work.

The cleverness and craftsmanship in your box, speaks to your cleverness and craftsmanship in your armory skills. It's far from definative, it's just a clue.

I'd rather see a new armorer I don't know yet pull out a tester they made themself rather than open up a Pelican case with a Universal in it. Don't get me wrong, I think a DeChaine 3 meter Universal is a great test box, but a newbie with a Universal is someone spending too much money on not enough experience.

I think everyone should start out building the basic one meter, rotary switch version. The 3 meter versions are nice (mine is 3 meter), but they have their drawbacks until you get up to the circuity like Dan's use.

I happen to prefer 10 ohm center scale rather than 5 for USFA events. There are two reasons for that: one is I appreciate some more resolution at the far end of the scale (to the left of center), and to get a 5 ohm center, you have to push a lot of current through the meter, which burns through batteries too quick for me. I find I can get plenty of resolution on the right side with a 10 ohm center.

Oh, and BTW, has anyone actually caught an A-C short that didn't also have an A-B or C-B short? I've never seen one, and it's pretty hard to do. You can easily reverse A & C, which an A-C test catches. Shorting them without shorting A-B or B-C takes real skill.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by brtech

There is a theory that one armorer evaluates another, in part, by his test box.
While we all really appreciate Dan's boxes, there is something to be said for building your own. When you build your own, especially when you are just starting out, the act of building it teaches you a whole lot about armory work. And if it works, you really understand a lot more than a class teaches you about how body cords work.

The cleverness and craftsmanship in your box, speaks to your cleverness and craftsmanship in your armory skills. It's far from definative, it's just a clue.

I'd rather see a new armorer I don't know yet pull out a tester they made themself rather than open up a Pelican case with a Universal in it. Don't get me wrong, I think a DeChaine 3 meter Universal is a great test box, but a newbie with a Universal is someone spending too much money on not enough experience.

I think everyone should start out building the basic one meter, rotary switch version. The 3 meter versions are nice (mine is 3 meter), but they have their drawbacks until you get up to the circuity like Dan's use.

I happen to prefer 10 ohm center scale rather than 5 for USFA events. There are two reasons for that: one is I appreciate some more resolution at the far end of the scale (to the left of center), and to get a 5 ohm center, you have to push a lot of current through the meter, which burns through batteries too quick for me. I find I can get plenty of resolution on the right side with a 10 ohm center.

Oh, and BTW, has anyone actually caught an A-C short that didn't also have an A-B or C-B short? I've never seen one, and it's pretty hard to do. You can easily reverse A & C, which an A-C test catches. Shorting them without shorting A-B or B-C takes real skill.

First of all, the first part of what you said is very true. Building your own box helps more than anyone would guess.

I can think of one A-C short, beside reversing the wires on the bodycord. You can have a bared wire on an Epee that is connected to the A line. Now suppose the travel spring is too short. You won't get the B-C short and you won't know that you have a bigger problem. Once you fixed the travel spring, will you go back and check each line. I for one would probably be too lazy and not check B-C, only that A-B was working.

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by brtech

There is a theory that one armorer evaluates another, in part, by his test box.
While we all really appreciate Dan's boxes, there is something to be said for building your own. When you build your own, especially when you are just starting out, the act of building it teaches you a whole lot about armory work. And if it works, you really understand a lot more than a class teaches you about how body cords work.

The cleverness and craftsmanship in your box, speaks to your cleverness and craftsmanship in your armory skills. It's far from definative, it's just a clue.

I'd rather see a new armorer I don't know yet pull out a tester they made themself rather than open up a Pelican case with a Universal in it. Don't get me wrong, I think a DeChaine 3 meter Universal is a great test box, but a newbie with a Universal is someone spending too much money on not enough experience.

I think everyone should start out building the basic one meter, rotary switch version. The 3 meter versions are nice (mine is 3 meter), but they have their drawbacks until you get up to the circuity like Dan's use..

brtech:

Totally agree with you.
If you have someone that has the intrest and desire to enter into the complex world of armourery, they should build they're first, second and even third box (we all had to do it to get it right) starting out. This shows they're understanding of the wiring and how it should all work. Heck, I have seen (you have seen) some of the wildest/weirdest boxes in the world, yet they work! Have fun doing it is the most important issue.

Please understand that this thread has turned into a "to build or not to build your own box". Since my name is on this thread, I once again want to insure that all understand that I build a box for sale not for armourer's, yet for the average fencer that wants to check something on they're own equipment with before coming to a meet. What a concept? It also can be used at clubs that do not have the experienced armourer at hand. It has basic functions to test foil and epee weapons, all (normal) used body cords here in the US and a simple Lame tester on it, 500gm weight not inclueded.

I do not, nor did not want this box to become a armourer's test station for NAC events.

Also I own a Dan Universal 3 meter box. I really enjoy this box. Yet, understand I have the (key word) experience to build the same if needed and have done so. I enjoy and respect quality workmenship. This is truly what I see in Dan's box and carry my pelican case filled with my box and use it at every event I attend with pride.

Gary Spruill

[Purple Fencer]

And also understand that some of us can't solder for beans and buying a Universal from Dan is the best option!

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

And also understand that some of us can't solder for beans and buying a Universal from Dan is the best option!

It makes me feel better about my clumsy soldering to know that there are some experienced armorers who also have difficulty. Or were you not speaking autobiographically?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by HDG

It makes me feel better about my clumsy soldering to know that there are some experienced armorers who also have difficulty. Or were you not speaking autobiographically?

Oh no....trust me...I was DEEfINITELY referring to myself.

When I get to the point where I'm making my body cords again and in qualtity, I'm hiring someone to solder the A line clips....

[remise]

Then it's a shame I'm on the east coast. Soldering is relaxing to me - it's almost zen-like. Some good music, the right lighting, nice clean solder...too bad solder doesn't come in various scents like "ocean" and "green tea" and.....ok...I'll stop now.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by remise

Then it's a shame I'm on the east coast. Soldering is relaxing to me - it's almost zen-like. Some good music, the right lighting, nice clean solder...too bad solder doesn't come in various scents like "ocean" and "green tea" and.....ok...I'll stop now.

Heh...I think you've inhaled enough!!

[twisterfencing]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Oh no....trust me...I was DEEfINITELY referring to myself.

When I get to the point where I'm making my body cords again and in qualtity, I'm hiring someone to solder the A line clips....

Sam:
You gotta let me show you how to solder?
It's not that hard.

Gary Spruill

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by twisterfencing

Sam:
You gotta let me show you how to solder?
It's not that hard.

Gary Spruill

Next time you come out to sunny Cal-e-for-ni-ay....besides...Donald mentioned a soldering prob with my cords that I should resolve anyway...

[Smyles]

Originally Posted by twisterfencing

Sam:
You gotta let me show you how to solder?
It's not that hard.

Gary Spruill

It's all about the heat, get that right and you're set

[yeoldearmourer]

I like the very simple box built by Joe Brnyes for checking bodycords and lame and reels it also check for reverse in the cords and used three meters with it that plugs into the box and even without the meters the parts used to built it was 80.00 dollars two years ago. With three anlog meters with it I would have to get about 150.00 for just to cover the cost of making it. The nice thing about it is if one the meters died there easy to replace they not built in. Home Deport carrys a small anlog meter that can be used and it does have Rx1 settings on it.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

I like the very simple box built by Joe Brnyes for checking bodycords and lame and reels it also check for reverse in the cords and used three meters with it that plugs into the box and even without the meters the parts used to built it was 80.00 dollars two years ago. With three anlog meters with it I would have to get about 150.00 for just to cover the cost of making it. The nice thing about it is if one the meters died there easy to replace they not built in. Home Deport carrys a small anlog meter that can be used and it does have Rx1 settings on it.

If you are building a box and you want a nice multimeter, I recommend:
http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/YX360TRnf.htm

There seems to be a little confusion with the price. I usually pay $20. The home page says its on sale for $13. This page says $15. Any way, it's a really nice meter for the price, and it has a mirror scale and Rx1. I've dealt with this vendor for a couple of years. Pretty decent.

I actually use a related model with my current test rig:
http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/YX360TRnf.htm
that one has a cover and built in leads (which I chop the probe off and replace the end with a banana plug). The cover protects the meters in my tool box when traveling. The only thing I don't like about these meters is that the battery compartment has a wimpy spring, and I often have to futz with it after an airline trip.

These are bigger than the tiny ones Joe often comes with. That takes up more room in your tool box, but in high volume test, bigger is better I think.