Coaching Horror Stories

[SJB]

What is the absolute most memorable terrible student or students you've ever had?

I'll start.

1) When I was teaching a youth fencing program at the University here while I was still a teen-ager I had one boy, 11 years old, who from the beginning of the class would ask perodically "when do we get the swords!?!?!" ala that guy in the Simpsons episode "when do we get the freakin' guns!?".

Yes, this meant he was going to be a problem.

When I took the class of 12 down to the equipment lockers and began to go over the anatomy of a foil and what you do and don't do with them he snuck behind me, grabbed a foil and then began running down the hallway, swinging the foil to and fro, and screaming.

I managed to tackle him before he reached the Kineseology Cafeteria ....

When speaking to his mother about his behaviour she informed me that he was both homeschooled and had ADHD. However, she didn't feel his ADHD was important info to put on his waiver for the class as a medical condition.

2) At an exclusive fitness club, ex. 20-30 year wait unless grandfathered in by another member and a minimum of six figures per year in salary to be eligible for membership, I was instructing a children's class on weekends.

I had two brothers, one 12 and one 9 who were absolute holy terrors. No sense of discipline or manners. Their mother would hover outside the door of the class, watching through the window. When I would kick them out for disobdience (and I am no drill sergant) they would vanish into the hallway for a chat with their mother, returning with an insencere apology.

Halfway through the session the mother came in to inform me that the eldest son had a punctered windpipe and would miss the next two classes.

Moments after she left I turned to the younger brother and asked how his brother had pierced his windpipe.

"I threw a dart at him"

"You what??"

"I threw a dart at him. It was his birthday and I was mad at him and I was by our dart board so I threw a dart at him".

This is coming from a 9 year old.

Your turn.

[c3l2vantes]

ummmmmm..........................yeah thats bad.

anyways, i have a reverse story if thats ok? i'd been fencing for about 6 mo. and was competing at the "other" club in town during a memorial turny of thiers. One of the coaches there ( got 1st or 2nd in world cup womens vet) called my style complete garbage, even stopping the bout at this point. now i have to say my style may be a little...odd? (i try alot of Digrassi's moves-~medievel stylez) but by no means dangerous to the other person. this is an epee bout btw. well, after she stopped us to tell me that my style was garbage, she warned me "not to fence like that"--at this point i had been using the broad ward, imagine standing in a leopard stance with your shoulders squared towards the opponant and sword arm directly out. very unconventional and very impractical, and no it usually doesnt work....usually . anyways, i went on to win that particular bout in our pools. funny thing, she aparently didnt know how to count because she messed up everyones score that she kept (our entire pool--we were lucky everyone remembered their bouts the same way) once we had hatched that out, i went on to take 4th out of 30 some odd top fencers in the area, there were at least two As (one of which i lost to 12-15, the vandy coach Casper) and even beat a B fencer that belonged to that club. That B fencer now studies at our club because of the horrible coaching at the "other" ::cough cough LFC cough cough:: club. i mean come on!! she called me garbage, how does garbage hold its own against top fencers eh? eh? eh? oh and i went from a U to a D fencer in that turny

[rcmatthews]

because its epee and you did something very unconventional

[TitanHawk]

Originally Posted by c3l2vantes

ummmmmm..........................yeah thats bad.

anyways, i have a reverse story if thats ok? i'd been fencing for about 6 mo. and was competing at the "other" club in town during a memorial turny of thiers. One of the coaches there ( got 1st or 2nd in world cup womens vet) called my style complete garbage, even stopping the bout at this point. now i have to say my style may be a little...odd? (i try alot of Digrassi's moves-~medievel stylez) but by no means dangerous to the other person. this is an epee bout btw. well, after she stopped us to tell me that my style was garbage, she warned me "not to fence like that"--at this point i had been using the broad ward, imagine standing in a leopard stance with your shoulders squared towards the opponant and sword arm directly out. very unconventional and very impractical, and no it usually doesnt work....usually . anyways, i went on to win that particular bout in our pools. funny thing, she aparently didnt know how to count because she messed up everyones score that she kept (our entire pool--we were lucky everyone remembered their bouts the same way) once we had hatched that out, i went on to take 4th out of 30 some odd top fencers in the area, there were at least two As (one of which i lost to 12-15, the vandy coach Casper) and even beat a B fencer that belonged to that club. That B fencer now studies at our club because of the horrible coaching at the "other" ::cough cough LFC cough cough:: club. i mean come on!! she called me garbage, how does garbage hold its own against top fencers eh? eh? eh? oh and i went from a U to a D fencer in that turny

I'll never critize the way you fence (unless you want me to). I will however post something that my coach has on his website:

Perhaps the biggest reason that fencers drop out of the sport after some competition experience involves the phrase, "But it works!" Almost everyone that starts does some things "wrong," but there's something odd about many "wrong" things: such a style may produce a lot of success, especially against other inexperienced opponents but even against experienced fencers who don't expect "wrong" actions and haven't been taught how to take advantage of them. A beginner may have success on the local level, even the regional level, but there will be some opponents they just will not be able to beat and a plateau of ability that they will have problems moving beyond. Being coached from a "wrong" style to a "right" style almost always involves a frustrating interim where nothing seems to work and success seems impossible, and it is during this interim that many fencers give up and find something else to do. Just keep in mind that usually having success with a faulty approach implies physical gifts that will eventually make proper technique very successful.

It also depends on how competetive you want to be and if your happy with the way your fencing. Also I'd guess that several other factors came into play, the coach that argued with you may be a decent fencer but does infact seem like a lousy coach. Also you probably got annoyed/angry at the other fencer but instead of being sloppy you got more focused and probably had better point control. If thats true you can use that to your advantage in the future.

[Schiavona]

Other than the kids who really don't want to be in the class (their parents felt fencing was a Good Idea and dropped them off), the worst, most frustratrating student I can remember was a very nice man in his late 30's or early 40's I'll call George.

George could learn and perform basic fencing techniques, but he could never, NEVER, EVER do a paired, directed drill. I don't know how many times a lesson would be like this; "OK, try a beat attack 6, disengage 4." "Uh, George? That was nice, but this time disengage 4, not coupe 4." "Sorry, coach. Disengage 4, right." "Uh, George? The disengage goes under the blade, not over it." "Right, right. Got it now." "George? That was a coupe again." This would go on and on no matter how I approached the material. He would have this problem only in lesson, no matter what we worked on he consistantly did the wrong thing. Whatever he did, he did well-it just wasn't what I was asking for! His wife later told me he had AADD and was embaressed about it. It just drove me crazy for a while.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by c3l2vantes

ummmmmm..........................yeah thats bad.

anyways, i have a reverse story if thats ok? i'd been fencing for about 6 mo. and was competing at the "other" club in town during a memorial turny of thiers. One of the coaches there ( got 1st or 2nd in world cup womens vet) called my style complete garbage, even stopping the bout at this point. now i have to say my style may be a little...odd? (i try alot of Digrassi's moves-~medievel stylez) but by no means dangerous to the other person. this is an epee bout btw. well, after she stopped us to tell me that my style was garbage, she warned me "not to fence like that"--at this point i had been using the broad ward, imagine standing in a leopard stance with your shoulders squared towards the opponant and sword arm directly out. very unconventional and very impractical, and no it usually doesnt work....usually . anyways, i went on to win that particular bout in our pools. funny thing, she aparently didnt know how to count because she messed up everyones score that she kept (our entire pool--we were lucky everyone remembered their bouts the same way) once we had hatched that out, i went on to take 4th out of 30 some odd top fencers in the area, there were at least two As (one of which i lost to 12-15, the vandy coach Casper) and even beat a B fencer that belonged to that club. That B fencer now studies at our club because of the horrible coaching at the "other" ::cough cough LFC cough cough:: club. i mean come on!! she called me garbage, how does garbage hold its own against top fencers eh? eh? eh? oh and i went from a U to a D fencer in that turny

Heh, what vandy tournament was that at? Also, Casper is a B, not an A.

[fencerontheline]

Originally Posted by c3l2vantes

how does garbage hold its own against top fencers eh? eh? eh?

But (with exceptions),
I don't think Bs in Tennessee necessarily count as top fencers...

In many situations, when a decent fencer fences somone completely spastic, the spaz can win. Doesn't mean the spaz held their own, and it doesn't mean they're a good fencer.

[RebelFencer]

To add to what FOTL is saying, in epee'...the hardest person for a good epeeist to fence is a novice. You can't make them react how you want them to because they don't know enough to fall for traps. They tend to be random in movement and just, well, noobish. In pools I would rather fence a good fencer than a spastic novice anyday. (I'm not saying anything personal against you Cervantes, just making a generalization.)

[knave]

Originally Posted by fencerontheline

But (with exceptions),
I don't think Bs in Tennessee necessarily count as top fencers...

In many situations, when a decent fencer fences somone completely spastic, the spaz can win. Doesn't mean the spaz held their own, and it doesn't mean they're a good fencer.

Plus it was epee. It's not like epee requires skill..
At least, epee is more vulnerable to the odd and the spaz winning than either foil or sabre.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by c3l2vantes

ummmmmm..........................yeah thats bad.

anyways, i have a reverse story if thats ok? i'd been fencing for about 6 mo. and was competing at the "other" club in town during a memorial turny of thiers. One of the coaches there ( got 1st or 2nd in world cup womens vet) called my style complete garbage, even stopping the bout at this point. now i have to say my style may be a little...odd? (i try alot of Digrassi's moves-~medievel stylez) but by no means dangerous to the other person. this is an epee bout btw. well, after she stopped us to tell me that my style was garbage, she warned me "not to fence like that"--at this point i had been using the broad ward, imagine standing in a leopard stance with your shoulders squared towards the opponant and sword arm directly out. very unconventional and very impractical, and no it usually doesnt work....usually . anyways, i went on to win that particular bout in our pools. funny thing, she aparently didnt know how to count because she messed up everyones score that she kept (our entire pool--we were lucky everyone remembered their bouts the same way) once we had hatched that out, i went on to take 4th out of 30 some odd top fencers in the area, there were at least two As (one of which i lost to 12-15, the vandy coach Casper) and even beat a B fencer that belonged to that club. That B fencer now studies at our club because of the horrible coaching at the "other" ::cough cough LFC cough cough:: club. i mean come on!! she called me garbage, how does garbage hold its own against top fencers eh? eh? eh? oh and i went from a U to a D fencer in that turny

Also:: If you had taken 4th out of 30 fencers with 2 A's and a couple B's, you would've earned you C, so either you typoed or you didn't place as highly as you thought.

And:: Horrible coaching at the LFC? Maestro Stawicki is probably one of the top coaches is the country.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by c3l2vantes

ummmmmm..........................yeah thats bad.

anyways, i have a reverse story if thats ok? i'd been fencing for about 6 mo. and was competing at the "other" club in town during a memorial turny of thiers. One of the coaches there ( got 1st or 2nd in world cup womens vet) called my style complete garbage, even stopping the bout at this point. now i have to say my style may be a little...odd? (i try alot of Digrassi's moves-~medievel stylez) but by no means dangerous to the other person. this is an epee bout btw. well, after she stopped us to tell me that my style was garbage, she warned me "not to fence like that"--at this point i had been using the broad ward, imagine standing in a leopard stance with your shoulders squared towards the opponant and sword arm directly out. very unconventional and very impractical, and no it usually doesnt work....usually . anyways, i went on to win that particular bout in our pools. funny thing, she aparently didnt know how to count because she messed up everyones score that she kept (our entire pool--we were lucky everyone remembered their bouts the same way) once we had hatched that out, i went on to take 4th out of 30 some odd top fencers in the area, there were at least two As (one of which i lost to 12-15, the vandy coach Casper) and even beat a B fencer that belonged to that club. That B fencer now studies at our club because of the horrible coaching at the "other" ::cough cough LFC cough cough:: club. i mean come on!! she called me garbage, how does garbage hold its own against top fencers eh? eh? eh? oh and i went from a U to a D fencer in that turny

Dude, these are not "top fencers". This is a local tournament.

For the record, you should NOT insult LFC. The coach at LFC, Les Stawicki, was the head coach of the polish national team for almost 20 years.

What you said was stupid, and I'm going to riddle the small of your back with tip shaped welts the next time I fence you.

[bigdawg2121]

Gentlemen last time I checked Les was NOT a she...and leave the scrub alone. It's not like he claimed his style worked that often, he just noted that he got to pwn a coach that probably stepped out of their bounds while refereeing. Good job

[Adler]

I had a guy on a beginers course who declared after 2 weeks that he had mastered foil and wanted to fence sabre as it was more inline with his "spiritual energies".

[jBirch]

Two things:

1) I was speaking to a kid at a tournament about a tactical problem he was having with his opponent. To illustrate a point, I grabbed a sabre and did a very slow, gentle tap on his en garde to show what he was doing and what his opponent was taking advantage of. He parry riposted to my head. Lesson learned.

2) We had a bunch of middle-aged (30-50) women come down to the club for some lessons. Yay, thought I, a new demographic for the club! Alas, they had read in Shape magazine that fencing was really good for their butts and just wanted to do lunges for an hour. No bladework, no bouting. Just lunges.

James.

[SJB]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Two things:
2) We had a bunch of middle-aged (30-50) women come down to the club for some lessons. Yay, thought I, a new demographic for the club! Alas, they had read in Shape magazine that fencing was really good for their butts and just wanted to do lunges for an hour. No bladework, no bouting. Just lunges.

James.

Fencing cougars!

[Fencergrl]

Did someone call?

[edew]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Two things:

1) I was speaking to a kid at a tournament about a tactical problem he was having with his opponent. To illustrate a point, I grabbed a sabre and did a very slow, gentle tap on his en garde to show what he was doing and what his opponent was taking advantage of. He parry riposted to my head. Lesson learned.

2) We had a bunch of middle-aged (30-50) women come down to the club for some lessons. Yay, thought I, a new demographic for the club! Alas, they had read in Shape magazine that fencing was really good for their butts and just wanted to do lunges for an hour. No bladework, no bouting. Just lunges.

James.

1): Been there, done that.

2): I wouldn't say that it's a horror story. Great for them. Right now, I have some moms at my club doing nothing by exercises. I use them to help me train myself. (You know, it's darned tough to go running, stretching, exercises, calesthenics, footwork and such, so having people pay me to do that with them is a good incentive.)

I also have a horror story of sorts. I had one person who was averse to being touched (as in, "Hi, how's it going --slaps the back--" and almost getting a round-house punch to the face). This person's parental unit explained that the child (actually 16 years old, I believe) really doesn't like being touched. (So why the ***k does this person take up fencing?) This person also has this "romantic" image of fencing, so when the person showed up early for class (since this person "loved" fencing), this person would grab two sabers and whips them around in a sort of an elaborate saber-dance / jedi-knight boy bit. But when it came to actually fencing, this person was nothing but prissy and always made a late, revenge-based hit after the opponent already hit.

I also had another student, seemed pretty normal, who didn't approve of the fact that hits in fencing (saber in this case) did not have to be hard. So in the competition portion of the class, he gets a very light touch against himself and was pissed because it didn't feel like he got hit. He then stood there, just wanting to be hit to get the bout over.

[c3l2vantes]

yeah i'd say im totally spastic, and there were 23 fencers in a B1 event (so yeah i was rounding >< :P and it was 6th not 4th...dunno where i got that, it was a while ago heheh. didnt realize till you ppl wouldnt let me be lazy
. also, i'd say titanhawk's advice is spot on, and much appreciated.

[rcmatthews]

Originally Posted by Adler <