Youth Burnout

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I have a y-10 (8 years old) student, who honest to god, is a training psycho. As his coach, do you let the kid train his guts off? Or do you request that he scale it back to prevent injury and burnout?

[Morion]

You definately want to do everything you can to prevent him from injuring himself. Perhaps you can at least direct him into exercises of technique that don't stress him too much physically.

[seven6ty]

I'd let him go at it. If he gets burnt on it, that's fine, he may need a little break, but I'd think it's great that he puts so much effort into it. We'd all be much better fencers if all of us followed his lead.

[Peach]

A coach needs to be aware that 8-year-olds should not be training like teenagers. Their physiological response to training is not the same, and injuries (and long-term overuse issues) are a definite possibility. One of the biggest problems I have with youth sports these days is the assumption that what works for adults should work for teenagers should work for kids. It doesn't.

Also, while I respect your energy, motivation, and relative experience, you are too young to be training an 8-year-old on your own. I hope you're being mentored by someone who understands youth fencing or youth sports in general, and if you're not that you can find someone like that. Go ask that person, not the general membership of f.net, for we are as all as full of opinions as a balloon is of wind (and about as knowledgeable sometimes).

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Yeah, im not having him do any weight training or cross training. He just puts pretty much everything he has into footwork and bladework drills at practice.

[notalent]

Greetings DFP,
Burnout happens from fatigue, boredom, and frustration. Keep him having fun, praise and encourage him for success. Don't over work him, and he is less likely to suffer burnout. Monitor him while he is practicing to make sure he isn't getting tired or flustered. Take breaks during practice time. Play games like the glove game and hitting a falling target, to keep things fresh.
A kid his age can be a long term fencer if he has fun.

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I have a y-10 (8 years old) student, who honest to god, is a training psycho. As his coach, do you let the kid train his guts off? Or do you request that he scale it back to prevent injury and burnout?

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Yeah, im not having him do any weight training or cross training. He just puts pretty much everything he has into footwork and bladework drills at practice.

Are you kidding what kind of pussy is this kid I'm training a 6 year old who can clean+jerk 4 times his bodyweight and he runs windsprints before preschool every morning

Obviously he isnt doing crosstraining, he's a friggin 8 year old.. lol

Seriously though I have read from a number of sources that pre puberty the nervous system (the efficiency of which greatly effects speed+strength) can be molded like clay with the right stimulation. If you think the kid is really serious play games with him that require max effort (relay races sometimes). Obviously be very careful with this.

[Mo]

I am reading this with some fascination.

If a child wants to do more than everyone else, LET THEM. More kids burn out because they are held back than do because they are pushed.

Look how kids that are advanced at school are in constant trouble due to boredom.

A friend with a six year old told us how she was called in to have a teacher conference because her son was causing "trouble" in the classroom. The teacher told her that her son was not following directions. She asked for clarification. The teacher told the kids to draw a rectangle and then draw something in the rectangle. So the kid draws a rectangle but made it into a box. In his box he drew a laboratory. He had bunsen burners, test tubes, all kinds of stuff.

My friend asked how she knew it was a LABORATORY and the teacher said because he labeled it. She asked if he spelled in correctly and the teacher said yes. My friend laughed and then the teacher got really mad. He was not "following directions."

The kid stands up when he writes too which also makes the teacher bonkers.

Instead of appreciating the uniqueness of this child the teacher gets irritated and wants him to work at the dumbed down pace of the rest of the kids.

Can you imagine how frustrated he would be if he went to fencing class and it was dumbed down too because of his age??

Keep those kids challenged. Don't push them and don't hold them back either.

Let the kids decide.... Seriously.

The Momster

[Marigold]

A friend with a six year old told us how she was called in to have a teacher conference because her son was causing "trouble" in the classroom. The teacher told her that her son was not following directions. She asked for clarification. The teacher told the kids to draw a rectangle and then draw something in the rectangle. So the kid draws a rectangle but made it into a box. In his box he drew a laboratory. He had bunsen burners, test tubes, all kinds of stuff.

My friend asked how she knew it was a LABORATORY and the teacher said because he labeled it.

That's a really awesome kid. XD

Yeah, im not having him do any weight training or cross training. He just puts pretty much everything he has into footwork and bladework drills at practice.

If all he's doing is being extremely dedicated during practice, I don't think that's a problem at all. Just make sure he doesn't push himself too hard and really wear himself out.

[parrythis]

This is a tricky one. As an individual, the kid has the right to train as hard as he wants. As his coach, you are responsible for keeping him on a productive path. Burnout, however, is not part of a productive path.

The problem is that kids are not always self-aware or able to assess risk in a cause-and-effect construct. The example I will always remember is when my family attended a picnic at a friends house. They had a pond and all the kids went swimming. My eight-year-old son loved to swim. He swam and swam and swam that day. Being a parent, I kept an eye on him. I saw that he was starting to get tired. I wandered over to the pond and called to him and said that he was looking a little tired and it was time to get out of the water for a while. My son, who was so exhausted that he was barely able to tread water and whose head was going under with every gasp for breath called back to me, "No, dad, I'm not tired. I want to keep swimming." Of course, being a responsible parent, I reached down, grabbed his arm, and pulled him out. If I hadn't, he would have drown within the next three minutes.

Here was a kid that was so focused on the fun he was having that he totally ignored the danger he was in. He was completely oblivious to the fact that he was physicially drained. Sometimes kids need a responsible person supervising them to set limits and tell them when enough is enough.

[Balaestra]

I know I'm a (mature kid and might not be able to contribute much to this thread, but listen to this: I knew this girl a long time ago who started fencing and was an absolute fanatic. The same week that she started she made a wooden foil to practice with at home. From scratch. Then her coach made this mistake of providing her with a practice program. It was an hour straight of lunging non-stop. So this girl did it everyday and for as long as she could hold out with huge heavy weights on her legs, and she added in weight lifting and bike riding. She did this for a year straight. First she became novice state champion after about four months of fencing, then she became state champion in her age group and the one above a few months later. By this time she was getting a bit cocky and wouldn't really listen to anyone, because she knew she was the best and there was no doubting it. I mean look at her results. Then one day somebody told her she was fat. So she began to change that, all the while continuing on her insane program. She pushed herself for fencing's sake until she cried and it was impossible to go on. So she kept going until the cadet nationals (at this time she'd been fencing for about a year), and at this point she was very sick. However, despite how sick she was, she went on and won. Don't ask me how. Ask her. But soon after that, she realised that she didn't really care about fencing anymore. She had worked herself into oblivion for fencing from overpracticing and overexercising and she had had enough. Soon after that, she took a very long sick leave. She was gone for six months. But then one day she appeared back at her fencing club, and started again. Why? We will never know. But she came back and she is pretty happy about that. She's enjoying fencing more than ever now.

This is a true story. It's someone I know and I don't feel inclined to say who they are, they'd be a bit embarrassed.

So there is a moral to this story: Don't let your students overtrain themselves till they burn out, because you might have really lost something, but more importantly they will never know what they lost, so tell them what might happen and try to control them, just enough so that their passion burns in a continuous flame with the desire to continue to come back and improve. Because they might not always come back when they leave. Too many bad memories.

[jdoiv]

about the national soccer federation. They released a statement to youth coaches to guess what? Stop coaching so much... Seems the kids were getting burned out doing drills and practice and being screamed at. So the federation said to stop coaching and just let the kids PLAY. All of the great soccer players got great because their love of the game, not from doing drills. If your fencer loves to fence, let him. If it's drills and training that he enjoys, let him. Just don't ask them to do things they don't want to do too much. Let them have fun....

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I guess i'll just let the kid mind his own patch, but i'll make sure that he warms up and performs things safely so that he doesnt get hurt.

[cornflower]

Just keep him safe. Teach him how to do things safely. So just let him train unless he starts lifting hundred pound weights and starts to roger himself with the epee grip.

[teesaa]

My 14 year old daughter loves to train and fight. She even enjoys footwork . She fought hard through the SW Sectionals and earned second in U19 and Senior Women's Sabre. Unfortunately, she now has a semi-sprained right ankle and tendonitis in her blade wrist and forearm.

Needless to say, she will be taking a few weeks off.

Regards,

Al

[SJB]

The other thing I would watch is to make sure his training is done properly.

If he trains hard but trains badly then you have *years* of trying to fix the bad habits he picked up and never fixed early on.

[Valerio Versace]

The question is... does he have the potential to become really good?
YES: let him train, providing him advice and the benefit of your experience. Don't let him get injured or otherwise screw up. Help him unleash his potential.
NO: let him train to improve as much as he likes but don't put too much pressure on him. If he's already a training psycho, you shouldn't push him further. Otherwise, helping him direct his efforts in the most productive way possible is key.

Probably, you won't notice before a few years... for now, just make sure that he doesn't hurt himself, keep him interested with the sport and teach him whatever you can.

[bigdawg2121]

Valerio how would you know if a KID has potential to be good? I'm pretty sure most coaches will tell you that drive, dedication, and determination make champions much much more often than ability does

[Poulet]

Originally Posted by EvIl CrAzY tAcO

Location: cardboard box under overpass

I didn't know I had franchises!

[KD5MDK]

Horror, more like. I'm not sure I can take 2 of you.