Gloves, anyone?

[Inquartata]

I can't see t.16 or anything else right now, as my rule book is at home and my computer "issues" are well known. However, I thought the rule only forbade any grip which permitted both the strength-enhancing projections and the ability to shift the hand position. If one had, say, a Russian grip with a long ferrule ( or whatever that part of the grip is called ) in front of it, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could move their hand from the orthopedic section onto the ferrule while fencing. So long as the hand position is "fixed", I don't see how making the overall grip longer violates the rule.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I can't see t.16 or anything else right now, as my rule book is at home and my computer "issues" are well known. However, I thought the rule only forbade any grip which permitted both the strength-enhancing projections and the ability to shift the hand position. If one had, say, a Russian grip with a long ferrule ( or whatever that part of the grip is called ) in front of it, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could move their hand from the orthopedic section onto the ferrule while fencing. So long as the hand position is "fixed", I don't see how making the overall grip longer violates the rule.

m.4 1. The maximum length of the grip at foil and épée is 20 cm,
measured between lines B and E, and 18 cm, measured
between lines B and D. At sabre the maximum length of
the grip is 17 cm (see Figures 8, 9 and 13, pp. 80, 83, 88).
2. The grip must be able to pass through the same gauge as
the guard. It must be so made that normally it cannot injure
either the user or his opponent.
3. All types of hilts are allowed providing that they conform
to the regulations which have been framed with a view to
placing the various types of weapons on the same footing.
However, at épée, orthopaedic grips, whether metal or not,
may not be covered with leather or any material which
could hide wires or switches.
4. The grip must not include any device which assists the
fencer to use it as a throwing weapon.
5. The grip must not include any device which can increase in
any way the protection afforded to the hand or wrist of the
fencer by the guard: a cross bar or electric socket which
extends beyond the edge of the guard is expressly
forbidden.
6. If the grip (or glove) includes any device or attachment or
has a special shape (orthopaedic) which fixes the position
of the hand on the grip, the grip must conform to the
following conditions.
(a) It must determine and fix one position only for the
hand on the grip.
(b) When the hand occupies this one position on the grip,
the extremity of the thumb when completely extended
must not be more than 2 cm from the inner surface of
the guard.(Emphasis mine)

After repeated discussions with George K. it finally sank in for me.

It is not just the grip that is legal or illegal, it is the grip in the hand that must be evaluated.

A tall fencer with a large hand may legally use the largest size Visconti grip.

But hand that weapon to an average size ten year old and it may then become illegal because the extended thumb is not within two centimeters of the guard.

[Inquartata]

Thanks, Bill. I couldn't recall whether there was a specified distance from the bell or not.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I can't see t.16 or anything else right now, as my rule book is at home and my computer "issues" are well known. However, I thought the rule only forbade any grip which permitted both the strength-enhancing projections and the ability to shift the hand position. If one had, say, a Russian grip with a long ferrule ( or whatever that part of the grip is called ) in front of it, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could move their hand from the orthopedic section onto the ferrule while fencing. So long as the hand position is "fixed", I don't see how making the overall grip longer violates the rule.

This is what T.16 says. . . . If the handle has no special device or attachment or special shape (e.g. orthopaedic), a fencer may hold it in any way he wishes and he may also alter the position of his hand on the handle during a bout. However, the weapon must not be - either permanently or temporarily, in an open or disguiesd manner - transformed into a throwing weapon; it must be used without the hand leaving the hilt and without the hand slipping along the hilt from front to back during an offensive action.

In my earlier post, I should have been more clear. During a bout, but not during action you can move your hand on the French and even during an action, if you want to tighten up and move your hand forward, but not backwards.

Just goes to show, I still need to work on my T rules.

[Point_Left]

Poll is flawed! I generally use the Uhlmann 3-weapon washable non-sticky. In competition I use the Leon Paul electric sabre glove. I like both. I don't use the electric glove normally because I think my sweat eats metalnat an unusual rate. *sigh*

[Purple Fencer]

Based on feedback from Summer Nats and here, be advised that I am working on an updated version...the Armor Two.

Same great features as the Armor One with respect to the longer closure flap and extra back-of-the-hand padding, but removing teh padding from the cuff and fingers for better flexibility...although the thumb padding will remain.

HPFencing is getting the first batch...pending any further evals and changes by Matt and Craig, I should have the Armor Two in stock in the near future.

In addition, I am sending a mock up of a sabre combo version to my maker, so the Armor One-S and Armor Two-S could be out b the end of the year.

[Ordway]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Based on feedback from Summer Nats and here, be advised that I am working on an updated version...the Armor Two.

Same great features as the Armor One with respect to the longer closure flap and extra back-of-the-hand padding, but removing teh padding from the cuff and fingers for better flexibility...although the thumb padding will remain.

Ooooo, me like.

Any hope of it being non-grippy?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Ordway

Ooooo, me like.

Any hope of it being non-grippy?

What is this grippy thing you speak of???

(no grippy this time 'round)

I MAY put the padding back into the cuff after evaluation....the major problem has been stiffness due to teh foam in teh fingers....I hate to trade away the impact protection, but...

[TRB]

Allstar Gripstar, jsut becasue it was the best one in my opinion for grip, and they were the only type the Allstar stall had left in my size when I got my first glove, and have thus stuck to what I know and trust.

[JayhawkPawn]

Any ETA on the Armor Two Sabre glove? I'll be a test subject! I really don't want to spend $50 on a glove. Again.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by JayhawkPawn

Any ETA on the Armor Two Sabre glove? I'll be a test subject! I really don't want to spend $50 on a glove. Again.

I need to send a mock up to the maker first and see how he makes it...it'll be a couple of months at the earliest....I'll let ya know.

[die Fechterin]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

... but removing teh padding from the cuff and fingers for better flexibility...although the thumb padding will remain.

I like the idea of having finger padding. At least a little. I've had my index finger broken by an angry boy who missed the entire purpose of the flick. Probably would've just had a heck of a bump instead of a break. Cheaper too.

[mifencer]

My wife and I use a leather Allstar glove. I haven't been able to find it here in the US. It's great, soft leather and more expensive than the washable gloves.

Anyone else use it?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by mifencer

My wife and I use a leather Allstar glove.

Do you take turns, or are you so close that you wear it simultaneously?

[mifencer]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Do you take turns, or are you so close that you wear it simultaneously?

We take turns. Luckily, she has really large hands. Unfortunately, somethings look smaller when she holds it!!!

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by mifencer

We take turns. Luckily, she has really large hands. Unfortunately, somethings look smaller when she holds it!!!

Oh man....so MANY things that could be said...and all of them WRONG!!

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

What is this grippy thing you speak of???

(no grippy this time 'round)

I MAY put the padding back into the cuff after evaluation....the major problem has been stiffness due to teh foam in teh fingers....I hate to trade away the impact protection, but...

Look at the curved work gloves you can find at Home Depot, etc. to see how they do it. The winter ones allow quite a lot of thickness on the outside with almost no resistance to closing the hand. I can't remember the brand name at the moment, but if I think of it I'll post again.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

Look at the curved work gloves you can find at Home Depot, etc. to see how they do it. The winter ones allow quite a lot of thickness on the outside with almost no resistance to closing the hand. I can't remember the brand name at the moment, but if I think of it I'll post again.

Thanks, joe!

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

Look at the curved work gloves you can find at Home Depot, etc. to see how they do it. The winter ones allow quite a lot of thickness on the outside with almost no resistance to closing the hand. I can't remember the brand name at the moment, but if I think of it I'll post again.

Found that brand name yet??