05-22-2006, 12:22 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CC
Posts: 2,630
| Geographic strength
When measuring the strength of a particular region of the country, how important is it to consider veteran fencers?
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05-22-2006, 12:29 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,864
| I stand firmly in the camp that believes that regions should be decided based on feasibility of travel - not the strength/number of fencers.
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05-22-2006, 01:16 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Coast
Posts: 233
| IMO, just as important as counting juniors.
Juniors are only there for a brief period (est. 3 years) when they are strong. Veterans stay around and can teach multiple "generations" of juniors. I can attest to a number of Veterans who taught me (and others) lots about strategy, training, and technique. Not to mention regularly beating us on the piste. | |
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05-22-2006, 01:25 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Haydenville, MA
Posts: 1,563
| Personally, I wouldn't count veterans at all in considering the strength of a region. That is, I wouldn't count them as veterans--if they were still strong fencers, I wouldn't discount them because they are veterans, but I don't consider veterans results to add to the strength of the region.*
*Should I still be fencing when I am a veteran, my opinions may change | |
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05-22-2006, 01:28 PM
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#5 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,742
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Army Fencer When measuring the strength of a particular region of the country, how important is it to consider veteran fencers? | Depends mostly on why or for what purpose you are measuring the strength of a region.
-B
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05-22-2006, 03:22 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 448
| I would certainly think that someone like Mary Frye makes Philadelphia a stronger epee city...or Diane Kallus...or Peach, for that matter. Her club, and therefore her region, are stronger because she is there. And she won't be graduating and leaving anytime soon...(I don't think.) Not counting veterans is silly....Although I know plenty of junior fencers (and coaches for that matter) might agreee. | |
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05-22-2006, 03:36 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,812
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Originally Posted by hello? I would certainly think that someone like Mary Frye makes Philadelphia a stronger epee city...or Diane Kallus...or Peach, for that matter. Her club, and therefore her region, are stronger because she is there. And she won't be graduating and leaving anytime soon...(I don't think.) Not counting veterans is silly....Although I know plenty of junior fencers (and coaches for that matter) might agreee. | true, but they make it stronger because they are strong fencers, vet or otherwise. There's no reason to make any distinction between good fencers who are vets and good fencers who aren't vets, IMO.
-m | |
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05-22-2006, 04:44 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Coast
Posts: 233
| I guess I'll echo Brad's comment then.
If you're counting the strength for learning, I'd count strong veterans more than strong juniors as their experience tends to help them explain to someone else what they were doing wrong or what they should work on. And a lot of them have that whole cunning aspect which allows them to force you to change more.
If you're counting on strength for tournaments in a region, a strong fencer is a strong fencer, regardless of age. | |
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05-22-2006, 05:49 PM
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#9 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,037
| I don't think Diane Kallus does much to make Philadelphia a strong epee city... | |
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05-22-2006, 06:11 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 498
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Army Fencer When measuring the strength of a particular region of the country, how important is it to consider veteran fencers? | Looking at the Pacific Coast Championships results, the men's events had 2 vets in the top 10 in each event (including gold in the foil event), and 1 vet in the top ten in each of the women's events.
The juniors had 3, 4, and 5 in the men's events (including gold in Epee and Sabre) and 2, 3, and 4 in the women's events (gold in sabre).
However, some the best Vets (Bothelio, Gerring, etc.) didn't fence in the men's epee event (the only one in which I really know who is best) because they more carefully meter their events to preserve their bodies.
Based on that, I'd say that for strength of competition measures, Vets should count about equally with Juniors in the men's events, and a little less than Juniors in the women's. | |
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05-22-2006, 06:12 PM
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#11 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,742
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Originally Posted by KD5MDK I don't think Diane Kallus does much to make Philadelphia a strong epee city... | Heck, I don't even think PEACH does much to make Philadelphia a strong epee city and she lives here.
-B
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05-22-2006, 06:25 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,314
| LOL PEACH fencing epee..I would almost pay to see that | |
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05-22-2006, 06:33 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Haydenville, MA
Posts: 1,563
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Originally Posted by seak LOL PEACH fencing epee..I would almost pay to see that | She has, apparently, dabbled in epee in the not-too-distant past. | |
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05-22-2006, 08:09 PM
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#14 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,037
| Everybody slums from time to time. I'll do it a bit more when I can afford my own epees, I expect. | |
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05-22-2006, 09:17 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Philly
Posts: 656
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Originally Posted by prototoast She has, apparently, dabbled in epee in the not-too-distant past. | Oh yes, she has. And from what she's told us, she's had a blast (likely also stemming from the fact that she's just having fun with it, no pressure at all  ) | |
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05-22-2006, 10:54 PM
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#16 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,742
| I believe she also has plans to resume doing so more seriously next season. Still doesn't mean that she's added significantly to the strength of epee in the division. :)
-B
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05-22-2006, 11:34 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: DC area
Posts: 235
| I find this to be a confusing question. If a veteran - or a junior - has a good rating or better yet, senior points, do they count less towards the strength of the region than a 20-40 year old fencer with a good rating and senior points?
What point are you trying to make, Army?
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05-22-2006, 11:36 PM
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#18 | | Scavenger
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,607
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by oiuyt I believe she also has plans to resume doing so more seriously next season. Still doesn't mean that she's added significantly to the strength of epee in the division.
-B | I would say that I added (somewhat insignificantly) to the weakness of epee in Philadelphia division last year. Boy, was I wretched. Hee hee hee.
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05-22-2006, 11:37 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,864
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Originally Posted by Peach I would say that I added (somewhat insignificantly) to the weakness of epee in Philadelphia division last year. Boy, was I wretched. Hee hee hee. | No fair... you never fenced me in EPEE...
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05-22-2006, 11:41 PM
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#20 | | Scavenger
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,607
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Originally Posted by Mr Epee No fair... you never fenced me in EPEE... | Well, heck, no. I woulda LOST 
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