liftin weights

[EricC]

what kind of exersises should i do to get better at fencing???

[xlr8]

I would first make sure you are doing everything you need with respect to footwork, technical training, sharp bouts, etc.

If you are comfortable that this is the case, then I would look at doing a basic weight training program focusing on lower body power. You may also look at incorporating some plyometrics as well.

If you are a novice as far as weight training, then virtually anything will work. (The old saw for weight training is everything works, but nothing works forever.)

I might recommend finding someone who can show you the basics wrt to form, etc. I think that squats/deadlifts, bench press and pullups form the basis for most good programs. If you have access to someone who can instruct you in proper technique for the olympic lifts and their variatons (clean and snatch) then these are a great way to train a lot of muscles, activate a lot of motor units and develop explosion very efficiently.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by EricC

what kind of exersises should i do to get better at fencing???

None at all, you would be better off studying the sport from a historical vantage point. It is a common misconception that athleticism is needed for this artform, and maybe it is for the people who run at each other jabbing all willy nilly. Just look at the great Aldo Nadi, he didn't work out at all and is the best fencer of all time. The only reason you will see "elite" fencers working out is to compensate for their obvious lack of technique and strategy.

[Prateek73]

I can't see how lifting weights would give you a significant edge in fencing

[escrimeur]

you do need some muscles. i had a friend who had very little in her upper leg and as a reslut developed pettelar femoral (can't spell it) syndrome, as to much stress was on her pettelar tendon (in her knee)

also cardio-vascular excersises would not be a bad idea

[Walnut]

One legged squats and cardio. I also do pull-ups and handstand pushups to round out a full body workout. That plus lots of footwork is more than you should ever need. If you can't tell, I'm too cheap to bother with a gym.

[jrgunn]

Originally Posted by Prateek73

I can't see how lifting weights would give you a significant edge in fencing

You have to be kidding.
For myself, I have found cross-training with a simple workout using hand weights and a home treadmill to be directly responsible for any success I have in this sport.
Why?
Because walking (not running yet) on the treadmill has built up my endurance so that I can actually put up a good fight all the way through a 15 pointer.
Because working out with light hand weights and ankle weights doing simple curls and squats gives my arms the ability to remain en garde without wobbling and my legs the same ability (not to mention the ability to actually lunge without falling down, or advance quickly down the strip without collapsing at the end of it).

Recommendation: Go to the bookstore and find a cheap fitness workout book. Do what it says (including the diet part) at home on non-fencing days. It'll take some time, but you will definitely improve.

[Spike327]

Bruce Lee got really far on push-ups, that's all I'm saying...

[Zanthyna]

When I started fencing again two years ago after several years, I rode my mountain bike two to three times a week for a couple hours each (rather streniously). That really helped my cardio as well as leg and arm strength/endurance. I don't ride much anymore, but I've been meaning to get back into it as the season I came back was my most sucessful and I felt like I had the most energy on the strip then.

[Durando]

Originally Posted by EricC

what kind of exersises should i do to get better at fencing???

Do lots of repeated "searches". You're also a bit lazy. Picking up those "g"s you drop adds more weight to any request you might make to the list.

[rory]

Originally Posted by EricC

what kind of exersises should i do to get better at fencing???

Durando's got it right - repeatedly moving the mouse to the "Search" link and clicking will improve many aspects of your fencing.

[rory]

Originally Posted by Prateek73

I can't see how lifting weights would give you a significant edge in fencing

Yeah. You really want to avoid anything that could make you stronger, faster and fitter. That can only be bad for your fencing.

While we're on the subject, I don't know why so many people bother with all that "taking lessons" crap - everyone knows that you're much better off just turning and and smacking people with your sword.

[rudd]

Cut the guy some slack. He's only started fencing here. Have a look at this thread or this one or this one. All address either strength training or fitness training.

As Durando said these threads and other can be found using the search function.

Regarding your comment RebelFencer wasn't sure if you were being ironic or idiotic. See this ARMA article The Role of Fitness in Historical Fencing

The Crossfit website is a good place to start. Check out the forum and the links.

For basic instruction on form and guidelines for programs have a look at any books by Stuart McRoberts and Starting Strength by Mark Ripptoe. all Available at Amazon.

There are some good resources on the subject of strength training.

[c3l2vantes]

oh my good god, physical fitness doesn't make a difference? omg!? lets be reasonable: more you run, longer you can perform general calisthenics. The more you work out your sword arm, the easier it will be to hold it on target, stronger your wrist, the harder it is for them to envelope your blade (you know those ppl I'm talkin about, its the army folk around here). the higher your general energy level, the more bouncy/active you are. I mean come on! ever seen those guys who work out the entire two hrs of prep before a turn then go on and fence 3 weapons, winning one or more. you think he got all cracked out like that by sitting on his arse and thinking about what he wanted to do.


p.s. how do people who don't exercise perform a lunge? last i checked doing that repetitive action was slightly muscle intensive...i dunno

[brutus]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

None at all, you would be better off studying the sport from a historical vantage point. It is a common misconception that athleticism is needed for this artform, and maybe it is for the people who run at each other jabbing all willy nilly. Just look at the great Aldo Nadi, he didn't work out at all and is the best fencer of all time. The only reason you will see "elite" fencers working out is to compensate for their obvious lack of technique and strategy.

What????!!! What????!!! What????!!! What????!!! What????!!! What????!!!
Sorry but I am actually shocked to the marrow.
I new that the fencing comunity was unable to grasp the concept that weight training is really really really a really good idea for fencing but i had no idea that people were that dense when it came to training that they actually don't believe in it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Right........ what would you say the main muscle fibre-type used in fast and explosive movements (just the kind of movement that fencing is based on) are? Well the answer is Fast twitch fibres (wont go into too much detail about which sub-type). And guess which muscle fibres are recruited almost exclusively during the concentric (lifting) part of lifting a weight; yep you guessed it FAST TWITCH (starting to see a patern?).
Now to answer the origonal guys question:
The types of exercises that you should be doing are a mixture of compound and isolation exercises (compound being a movement that recruits multiple muscles and muscle groups. Isolation being a movement that emphasises (you can never truly isolate a muscle or group) only one muscle or group).
Now I'm not a fan of whole body work outs so i would suggest some sort of split. What i mean by this is a work out plan that is spread over 3-4 days with rest days incorporated. Each day focuses on 1 or 2 bodyparts or muscle groups.
Here's an example of a good one (it's actually my work-out and I find it works pretty dam well):
Monday: Back and Biceps.
Barbell rows - 5 sets of 5-8 reps.
High cable rows - 5 sets of 5-8 reps.
low cable rows - 5 sets of 5 reps.
Close grip underhand grip lat puldown - 5 sets of 5-7 reps.
Eagle Pulldowns - 5 sets of 6 reps.
Rack pull - 4 sets of 6 reps.
Machine preacher curls - drop set 5 reps (should only just be able to squeeze out the 5th rep), then another 5 reps (should only just be able to squeeze out the 5th rep), then another 5 reps (should only just be able to squeeze out the 5th rep).
Tuesday: Chest, Triceps and Front Delts.
Flat bench press shoulder width grip - 5 sets of 5 reps.
Flat bench press wider than shoulder width grip - 5 sets of 5 reps.
Cable tricep pushdowns - 5 sets of 8 reps
Dumbell flys - 5 sets of 7 reps.
cable flys (I perform these more as a squeeze than a fly as I find it works the inner part of the pec muscles) - 3 sets of 5 reps.
Bent over cable tricep extension - 3 sets of 5-7 reps>
One handed underhand grip cable tricep pushdowns - 2 sets of 4 reps per arm.
Wednesday:Rear and Side Delts.
Upright cable rows (be careful this can mess up your rotator cuffs if incorrect form is used, so listen to your body on this one !!!!) - 5 sets of 5 reps.
Cable side raises - 4 sets of 6 reps.
Arnie presses - 5 sets of 8 reps.
Ahrens press - 2 stes of 4 reps.
Lateral raises (dumbell) - 4 sets of 7 reps.
External rotation - 2 sets of 8 reps per arm.
Thursday: Legs and Abs.
Leg extension - 3 sets of 5 reps.
Hamstring curls - 3 sets of 5 reps.
Sissy squats - 5 sets of 6-7 reps.
Squats - 5 sets of 8 reps.
Deadlifts - 5 sets of 8 reps.
(I edited this 'cos I left off the abs/core part)
Hanging leg raises - 2 sets of 10 reps.
Cable crunches - 3 sets of 7 reps.
Wood chops - 2 sets of 6 reps (each side).
Plank routine (involves holding plank for a few seconds, move up into pressup position, one pressup, pressup position on 1 arm, hold for a few seconds, back donw to plank postion) - continuous for 3mins.
Push-backs (when I've got a training partner) - 2 sets of 20.

Note:

The majority of compound exercises come on leg day to promote the strength and explosiveness required in the legs for fencing.

no forearm work is required in this program due to the nature of the sport of fencing as i believe that they get a good working over during club nights.

[Mr Epee]

Wow... nice contribution there from Brutus.

However, RebelFencer was making a joke, because this topic has been discussed so many times - and a legitimate question coming from Eric Cartman seems a little unlikely.

I will say that Brutus is working on a fairly solid program for strength, but it isn't a very good program for your more serious fencers.

[rory]

Mr Epee is, as usual, spot on.

Bodybuilding-style weights routines such as Brutus is using are great for adding size and raw strength, and will (to an extent) improve speed through the mechanisms that Brutus describes.

However, such routines are less than optimal at improving functional ability and don't train the body as "one piece" - and when you're fencing, you're not just using your arms on Monday and your legs on Tuesday

I find that I get more mileage towards improving my anaerobic efficiency and power output (very important for fencing,. which is among the most anaerobically intensive of sports) by working multiple muscle-group exercises such as the Olympic lifts, and training in short, interval-style bursts designed to elicit a whole-body response.

Have a look at CrossFit (www.crossfit.com) for more but basically we're talking squats (front, back, overhead), deadlifts, cleans, snatches, pullups, dips, sprinting, rowing, presses, L-sits, back extensions, pushups, handstands (and handstand pushups - ouch), and sit-ups, in a varierty of rep schemes but generally at a very high intensity.

The object is to make you stronger, faster, more co-ordinated and, crucially for fencing, able to recover faster.

[smurfette]

Use the search function. This topic has already been discussed in depth on the forum.

[Durando]

Originally Posted by brutus

What????!!! What????!!! What????!!! What????!!! What????!!! What????!!!

Brutus,

I think Rebel was being sarcastic in the same fashion I used to be sarcastic when working at a major publisher. I used to write to no-hope writers who bothered me more than twice: "You're fantastic. You're exactly what we're looking for. Whatever you're doing--drop it. Pack the van. Move up to New York. Your future is assured."

Unless, of course, he isn't. In which case he a walking illustration of the singularity wherein irony and ignorance consume one another.

Cheers,
D.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Durando

Unless, of course, he isn't. In which case he a walking illustration of the singularity wherein irony and ignorance consume one another.

Durando,

He's being sarcastic. Still, I would rep you for that wonderful use of language if I hadn't already today. Very, very well put.

RIT