liftin weights

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I feel like posting it for critique....

My current workout (I change it often though)

Monday:
15 minutes warm up on stationary bike
Standing Millitary Press
Squats
Reverse Hyperextension
Hanging leg raises
Incline situps
Six 3 minute rounds of jump rope, with 1 minute rest between each round


Wednesday:
15 minutes warm up on stationary bike
Barbell Row
Bench Press
Wrist Curls
Hyperextension
Hanging Leg raises
The Plank
Twist Crunches
Six 3 minute rounds of jump rope, with 1 minute rest between each round


Friday:
15 minutes warm up on stationary bike
Chinups
Deadlifts
Shrugs
Hammer Curls
Wrist Curls
Wrist Roller
Six 3 minute rounds of jump rope, with 1 minute rest between each round

Im using this to build up a strength base before starting plyometrics and olympic lifts.

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I feel like posting it for critique....

My current workout (I change it often though)

Monday:
15 minutes warm up on stationary bike
Standing Millitary Press
Squats
Reverse Hyperextension
Hanging leg raises
Incline situps
Six 3 minute rounds of jump rope, with 1 minute rest between each round


Wednesday:
15 minutes warm up on stationary bike
Barbell Row
Bench Press
Wrist Curls
Hyperextension
Hanging Leg raises
The Plank
Twist Crunches
Six 3 minute rounds of jump rope, with 1 minute rest between each round


Friday:
15 minutes warm up on stationary bike
Chinups
Deadlifts
Shrugs
Hammer Curls
Wrist Curls
Wrist Roller
Six 3 minute rounds of jump rope, with 1 minute rest between each round

Im using this to build up a strength base before starting plyometrics and olympic lifts.

I love reverse hypers, they're amazing. The routine looks fine, what kind of rep ranges are you doing? Do you do any medball? I think it could be very useful for a fencer, it has helped me tremendously with explosiveness for wrestling and people are always telling me I have a fast parry riposte so maybe that's a contributing factor. Only thing I really see missing is no tricep work? I like the jump rope idea, might try that (only I blow at skipping).

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

As far as medicine ball work, I've done some medicine ball ab work, but I over did it and actually strained my abs (though not seriously). I intend to build up my strength base more before attempting that again.

No isolation tricep work. The triceps get alot of work from the standing millitary and the bench press. Any more and I'd probably develop tendonitis in the elbow.

Skipping rope takes practice, but I feel it mimics the bouncing of epee pretty well.

[Mr Epee]

Take every press... and separate it into dumbbells...

Stop the wrist rolls... add a tricep activity... stop the hammer curls

It's a good start, and it's probably a good routine for a teenager...

Like Dram asked... sets and reps are probably the most important part.

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Take every press... and separate it into dumbbells...

Stop the wrist rolls... add a tricep activity... stop the hammer curls

It's a good start, and it's probably a good routine for a teenager...

Like Dram asked... sets and reps are probably the most important part.

What rep range do you think is best? Most coaches seem to tell me that it's periodized, starting higher and gradually getting lower as competitions come, but I've also been told by some good coaches that it's high weight low reps for the legs all the way.

Do you do any grip work? Or do you think fencing covers it? Agreed on the dumbells, especially for an asymmetrical sport like fencing.

[KD5MDK]

I lift a 1 pound weight a hundred times or so every weekend, and then repeat with a 1.5lb weight the next day. Sometimes I do them in the other order.

[brutus]

Originally Posted by dramamine

As far as full body workouts go, many top strongmen and natural strength athletes use fullbody routines. Olympic weightlifters use fullbody routines (OK, that's obvious. But if you ever see olympic lifters at your gym, ask them to jump for you. They have HUGE verts!) Many people if you ask around forums with high level athletes will tell you about their successes with routines such as Charles Poliquin's 5x5 routine (fullbody), Rippetoe's Starting Strength (fullbody), or Joe Defranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards (upper/lower). I mean go to www.defrancostraining.com and look at the results he has produced. Bodybuilding split routines like the one you posted are just that, for bodybuilders. Athletes and bodybuilders don't train the same way, plain and simple. The routine you outlined will produce mediocre results in terms of functional strength (of course you see gains, anything is better than nothing. that doesn't mean it's optimal).

Fencing IMO requires less upper body strength than most sports so following a routine such as this isn't necessary. I mean just look at the best fencers, if you want to be like them you have to train like them, and they aren't wasting valuable energy 4 days a week doing pec flyes and machine curls.

Stop flaming the pec flys, Christ sake!! Think about what pec flys do for a moment, mm, lets see, they work the pecs without recruiting the triceps, what resean could someone have for wanting to do this? Maybe becuase they've already done dumbell bench press and want to work the pecs on their own!!! And (I'll be the first to admit it) my pecs are a litttle bit under developed compared to my triceps so they don't get to take much load and as such don't get worked as hard as I wish so I choose to work them a bit more after benching!! (kind of a way of developing them on their own a bit)

So What you've done here is to take two of the exercises out of my work-out (pec flys and machine curls) and you've decided that (based on these 2 exercises) that my workout produces naff all functional strength!! Well, I already addressed the pec fly issue, now if you consider that on Monday I work back and lats as well you will start to see how I am using my biceps in conjuction with othe muscle groups - Barbell rows, eagle pulldowns, close grip lat pulldown, and the low cable pull (this exercise works pretty much the whole of the back and the biceps in a very functional way).

And you fence foil. Would it not be fair to say that each of the weapons has different requirements for the type of strength, power, fitness, etc??

Yes is the answer. Each faction requires different kind of training, and within that, different styles require different types of training, Lots of variables here!!

And to reitterate a pint I made earlier, perhaps I'll put it differently than before......I have no more competitions for 4 months, the aim of the program is to build up raw power and speed (and it is functional !!), (workout would be fine for a low level fencer (as I thought the origonal poster was) even in-season. And during my 'in-season' periods I switch to a workout more like DFP's (still keeping a slightly higher level of weights oriantation though).

I workout at Bath uni, the home of Team Bath (lot's of elite competitors there) and I have to say the they have 'splits' in their routines. not always in the same way as me but sometimes by upper/lower body.

Oh and just out of interest (for all you eppeist readers of this thread) have you ever executed a pin point accurate flick to outside of wrist on a right hander and them not even notis that it had been excuted until the buzz of the box???!!! lunged somone out of the air when they fleched????!!! Lecure me about chuffing speed and power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brutus]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I lift a 1 pound weight a hundred times or so every weekend, and then repeat with a 1.5lb weight the next day. Sometimes I do them in the other order.

**slap across the face hitch style**
"get out!!!"

lol

No but seriously, thats not a good idea, will slow you down, and you'll prob loose all power in whatever bodypart you're lift it with.

(unless you're take the pee then you about as funny as my left toe!)

[brutus]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Take every press... and separate it into dumbbells...

Stop the wrist rolls... add a tricep activity... stop the hammer curls

It's a good start, and it's probably a good routine for a teenager...

Like Dram asked... sets and reps are probably the most important part.

You're an eppeist and you've just said that??!!

DFP's got a really good in-season routine, as I said similar to my own in-season program.
The only statement that I agree with you about, through the whole of this thread is about the dumbell presses though, much better for building balance witch is essential for a sport wich cuases such one side dominance!! batter for you in general anyway really.

[brutus]

I used a program based mainly on building core stabilty and back strength prior to starting my corrent program due to a weirdly dodgy back, so had to get it stable before starting high intensity heavy lifts.

I then did a program spread over a few weeks that incorportaed some basic lifts to get form correct on the compound exercises and to ensure no shoulder, hip and various other joint injury.

I plan on swapping this program for a fresh brand-spanking-new program a few weeks out from my next major open, the new program will incorporate skipping (similar to DFP), speed and heavy bag work, and a cut down version of the weights program I posted earlier but with slightly higher reps, and 1-2 more sets per exercise.

This is the draught of the new in-season program haven't sorted days yet, but it's just a basic plan of the exercises that will be incorporated:


Standing dumbell curls (mod weight rapid lifting).
Weighted dips.
Barbell rows.
Bench press.
Arnie press.
Ahrens press.
Barbell lunges.
Squats.
Deadlifts.
Jump shrugs.
High pulls.
3 sets of 3mins skipping 1min break between sets. (simulate d.e. situation)
3 sets of 2mins speed bag work.
3 sets of 3mins heavy bag work 1min break between sets. (simulate d.e. situation)

In my current program the plank routine is swapped every couple of workouts for some static roman chair work, vacumes and pushing my abs outwards (opposite of vacume).

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Take every press... and separate it into dumbbells...

Stop the wrist rolls... add a tricep activity... stop the hammer curls

It's a good start, and it's probably a good routine for a teenager...

Like Dram asked... sets and reps are probably the most important part.

I started with dumbells. Its very difficult to do a bench press with 90 lb dumbells, so I switched to a bar. I get where you're going though, since the dumbells put a bigger emphasis on stabilizer muscles.

Why cut out the wrist rolls? I feel like they give me an immense advantage when I have to muscle through a parry, or flick someones on a deep target.

What sets and reps do you do reccomend, oh wize geezer?

[brutus]

I think that wrist curls/rolls/etc are a very marmite exercise (you either like em or not) not really esential but wortha go if you feel you need it.

As far as the dumbell presses go have you tryed lowering the weight a bit and used pec flyes?! (joke!!!!) lol

(I have posted far to much on this thread, need to get on with osme work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol).

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Why cut out the wrist rolls? I feel like they give me an immense advantage when I have to muscle through a parry, or flick someones on a deep target.

Take a look at the wrist's construction

Anterior view
Posterior view

Does this really look like an area you want to be isolating ant working? Also, your wrists and hands are getting worked on practicially every other exercise you perform...

the wrist joint is a fairly delicate multi-directional joint. the best exercise that I've seen for that area is to use one of the dynaflex gyros.

What sets and reps do you do reccomend, oh wize geezer?

what's wrong with just answering the question? you asked people to critic a program - not design one for you.

[darius]

Does this really look like an area you want to be isolating ant working? Also, your wrists and hands are getting worked on practicially every other exercise you perform...

Aren't wrist rollers a bit of a misnomer, though? Judging by where the burning comes from, they're actually isolating the forearm muscles responsible for wrist flexion.

darius

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Darius is correct. Same thing with wrist curls. Its more of a forearm curl.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by darius

Aren't wrist rollers a bit of a misnomer, though? Judging by where the burning comes from, they're actually isolating the forearm muscles responsible for wrist flexion.

darius

yes, the wrist is controlled by muscles in the forearm, however, wrist curls place strain on the joint while working the muscles that control it.

[rory]

I'd drop the wrist exercises: as has been mentioned your wrists are being stressed in most of the other exercises you do (especially cleans).

In any case, as we all know, manipulation of the weapon should be primarily fingerwork, not wrist - so maybe you'd get more value training your grip.

Grippers, plate pinches and bar hanging will all help your grip.
And you can strengthen the finger tendons through fingertip pushups too.

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by rory

I'd drop the wrist exercises: as has been mentioned your wrists are being stressed in most of the other exercises you do (especially cleans).

In any case, as we all know, manipulation of the weapon should be primarily fingerwork, not wrist - so maybe you'd get more value training your grip.

Grippers, plate pinches and bar hanging will all help your grip.
And you can strengthen the finger tendons through fingertip pushups too.

plate pinches rock, they are the only grip exercise i do

DFP, i don't get what you're talking about with dumbbells. are you implying that 90 pound dumbbells are too big to do bench press with?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

im saying that its a workout in its own right to get them up into the position to bench them, since you cant rack them.