Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

passata_sotto · 05-20-2006, 08:50 PM

I did search and found no mention of the best foils for youth so hopefully this is not a repeat.

I have a son who fences both foil and épée in Y10 and Y12. He has both a size 2 and size 5 épée; both from Leon Paul. The size 5 is FIE and the lightest of everything LP had and he says it is a dream weapon. Hopefully it will last for sometime.

My question is:What is the best foil in a size 2?

His coach does not want him switching back and forth between and 2 and 5 for foil (probably not in épée either but his size 5, mentioned above, is lighter than our club's 2s and I think that fencing épée at Nationals in Y12 with a size 2 blade is a definite disadvantage) and he always fences both ages. Our club uses Absolute blades for non-FIE and he just replaced two blades last week. He has another year in Y10 (hurray for January birthdays in fencing) and does a lot of competing and is looking to doing even more next year.

I am looking for recommendations for the best weapon I can get him in a size 2. Why can you not purchase maraging blades in this size?

Thanks for any help.

DHCJr · 05-20-2006, 10:17 PM

A little off the subject, but to reinforce that there is no longer the unenforceble requirement of a 0 or 2 blade for Y-10.

The rule that replaced it is the blade be less than 32.5".

KD5MDK · 05-20-2006, 10:20 PM

As for why you cannot buy maraging blades in smaller sizes, I would imagine the market for them is tremendously smaller than it is for regular sized blades, and so no one considers it important enough to market to. Note that FIE competitions are, as far as I know, Cadet and up only, so they all use full sized blades. Or nearly so. I know Joe Biebel buys "4" blades, as he prefers the slightly shorter length, but I think they are usually just ground down "5"s.

oiuyt · 05-20-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Note that FIE competitions are, as far as I know, Cadet and up only

And the only FIE cadet events are at the Cadet/Junior World Championships.

-B

passata_sotto · 05-21-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

And the only FIE cadet events are at the Cadet/Junior World Championships.

-B

I am not looking for FIE number 2 blades to be compliant with a requirement but rather, in the long run, it would be more economic to purchase one maraging steel blade to three cheap blades.
That said - any opinions as to the best foil to buy or are they all about equal?
We use visconti pistol grips and bayonet sockets and I can obviously buy those separately so I just need either a good blade or complete foil that will last a bit longer. If all are equal then I will just take some spare blades with us to Nationals and hope we dont go through too many.

passata_sotto · 05-21-2006, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

A little off the subject, but to reinforce that there is no longer the unenforceble requirement of a 0 or 2 blade for Y-10.

The rule that replaced it is the blade be less than 32.5".

I was not aware of this. Thanks for the info.

LP sells what they call "under 13s size 3" is this within the 32.5'' limit?

DHCJr · 05-21-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by passata_sotto

I was not aware of this. Thanks for the info.

LP sells what they call "under 13s size 3" is this within the 32.5'' limit?

Probably not.

How LP sells blades the number represents the approximate length of the blade without the tip. A #3 would be approximately be 33" without the tip. There is no standard for what a #2 or #3, etc. so other manufacturers may have a different length.

The measurement requirement is the blade and the tip. Tips are different lengths. When I first started Soviet tips were much shorter than other tips. Many would get Soviet full length blades, take off the tip and replace with Western tips and then fail the length. The Soviet blades were made to the length to match the Soviet tips.

oiuyt · 05-22-2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by passata_sotto

LP sells what they call "under 13s size 3" is this within the 32.5'' limit?

As DHC said, probably not. Those are blades to fit the requirements for U13 fencing in Britain -- requirements which we don't have.

-B

KD5MDK · 05-22-2006, 03:00 AM

They could, if you had the right tools, be shaved down at the base and used. However, I doubt that is a practical solution.

oiuyt · 05-22-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

They could, if you had the right tools, be shaved down at the base and used. However, I doubt that is a practical solution.

If you have the right tools you could also forge your own maraging blades in the desired length. However I doubt that is a practical solution.

-B

chefencer · 05-22-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

If you have the right tools you could also forge your own maraging blades in the desired length. However I doubt that is a practical solution.

-B

I'm just going to sacrifice one of my best rams to Hephaestus (and Vulcan just to cover my bases)!

KD5MDK · 05-22-2006, 01:25 PM

Remember, wrap the thigh bones in fat, and eat the rest.

Purple Fencer · 05-22-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

A little off the subject, but to reinforce that there is no longer the unenforceble requirement of a 0 or 2 blade for Y-10.

The rule that replaced it is the blade be less than 32.5".

Well...there goes your best trick question...

Where's the new rule posted? An FIE letter or a passage in the rulebook I missed?

oiuyt · 05-22-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Where's the new rule posted? An FIE letter or a passage in the rulebook I missed?

What makes you think it's been posted? :)

Obviously not FIE, as the FIE doesn't allow for athletes young than 13 (and therefore has no reason for Y10 rules).

It's in the operations guides for RYC/SYC competitions. Should be added to the USFA rulebook in order to apply to all USFA (Y10) competitions, but I don't recall this being done. It was buried in a VP report by Ro Sobalvarro last July, which included the RYC operations guide. I don't recall seeing it explicitly made into a rule, however (although I definitely could have seen it and not remember due to the fact that it's been coming for a while, so the formalization of the anticipated rule wouldn't be particularly noteworthy to me).

-B
ps and the best trick question (although fairly commonly-known at this point) is what's the minimum length for a blade (or a foil, etc.)

oiuyt · 05-22-2006, 06:24 PM

Just got a Summer Nationals confirmation packet today. Still specifies the Y10 blade requirement as "0" or "2" length blades, with no notation of the 32.5" rule.

-B

Purple Fencer · 05-22-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

ps and the best trick question (although fairly commonly-known at this point) is what's the minimum length for a blade (or a foil, etc.)

70cm...another fave of Donald's...

DHCJr · 05-22-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Just got a Summer Nationals confirmation packet today. Still specifies the Y10 blade requirement as "0" or "2" length blades, with no notation of the 32.5" rule.

-B

Thank you for that. I may have been had. For the Super RYC in San Jose, they had it at 32.5, but looking at the RYC web site, I see they have gone back to the 0 or 2. They knew I would be at San Jose and I would have for any fencer who wanted to use a full-length blade stamped them with a 2.

Well if they have gone back to 0 or 2, I would suggest to passata_sotto if their son wants to use the LP Epee blade, then go to any good hardware store and get a set of metal stamps and stamp a 2 in the blade.

With a 2 on the blade, they would have to allow them to use it, no mater what it's length.

keropie · 05-22-2006, 10:13 PM

I wonder if the stamp itself is sufficient to be a size two blade. After all, I can use a marker to write "FIE" on a uniform piece, clearly without making it FIE (though I know the FIE requirements are almost certainly better stated than those for size 0 or 2 blades). Just curious if the armorer could make that stand at an event if someone would show up with a 33, 34, or 35 inch size 2 blade...

^^

DHCJr · 05-22-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropie

I wonder if the stamp itself is sufficient to be a size two blade. After all, I can use a marker to write "FIE" on a uniform piece, clearly without making it FIE (though I know the FIE requirements are almost certainly better stated than those for size 0 or 2 blades). Just curious if the armorer could make that stand at an event if someone would show up with a 33, 34, or 35 inch size 2 blade...

^^

There is a big difference. There are requirements in the rule book about what it takes to put FIE on any piece of equipment. There is nothing and there has never been anything in any document put out by either the FIE or the USFA defining what a 0 or 2 blade is.

Think of ladies clothing. What is a size 8? Why is it that a women fits a size 8 from one manufacturer, but from another she goes down to a 6? If you look at clothes from 30 or 40 years you will find if you compare the same size from the same manufacturer will be smaller than something current.

If someone questions that a blade that has a 2 is too long, I would ask to see the rule.

KD5MDK · 05-22-2006, 11:30 PM

For that matter, aren't blade stamps (in particular, S2000 for sabres and 0 or 2 for youth events) the only markings a USFA armorer would have any need to check? There's no requirement for masks, lames, uniforms or body cords to have any marking on them at all, and none for senior eligable foil or epee events either.