DIY Scoring Box

[Sboard1019]

Hey all,

I am building a DIY scoring box. Planning on going old school style so no micro controller (don't really want to mess with programming one).

Do any of you have suggestions for what you would like in a box that isn't currently there? One suggestion i had was a light to indicate who hit first (though wont include it because of rules/its judges job).

Other sugestion i might find usefull?

Joe

[EricS]

Try building one using relays...it's a lot of fun!

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Sboard1019

Other sugestion i might find usefull?

Joe

Sure, take a look at this

and then take a look at this

Glad to have assisted you.

[Sboard1019]

Yeah, i deffinitally am reinventing the wheel so to sppek. I have acsess to an Electronics lab this summer (college is fun) and a lot of time on my hands... so I might as well build a scoring box!

[KD5MDK]

Have fun getting the epee timing and the new foil debounce timing...

[gh02t]

This is one of those projects that is fun and agonizing at the same time...

[Jay Kominek]

How exactly are you planning on doing the various bits of timing you need without a microcontroller? (Three ideas come to my mind, two of which are completely crazy, and the third involves more complicated programming hardware than a microcontroller.)

Keep in mind you can get a PIC programmer for $11. Or even make one yourself.

Personally I want to see smarter boxes that could talk to scoreboards or the bout committee wirelessly. But you're not going to get anything that complicated without something at least as complicated as a microcontroller.

[KD5MDK]

You can make a microcontroller? I presume you're talking about an FPGA, then.

Anyway, scoring boxes were around before microcontrollers, (except in sabre), so it's obviously physically possible, although there are fun details like the debounce timing in foil, and the whipover protection in sabre, that ought to make a scoring box of relays A TON OF FUN to design.

[EricS]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Anyway, scoring boxes were around before microcontrollers, (except in sabre), so it's obviously physically possible, although there are fun details like the debounce timing in foil, and the whipover protection in sabre, that ought to make a scoring box of relays A TON OF FUN to design.

It's possible to implement saber whipover timings using reed relays which are plenty fast enough. In the old days the debounce timings were matched to the propagation delay of a standard industrial control relay which are still fast but quite a bit slower than a good reed relay.

Nowadays a more conventional discrete (non-microcontroller) design would use RC timers and comparators.

[KD5MDK]

I'm not familiar with these things directly, but I was curious at the 11-15ms debounce time, in contrast to the former (possibly) infintesimally small one.

[EricS]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'm not familiar with these things directly, but I was curious at the 11-15ms debounce time, in contrast to the former (possibly) infintesimally small one.

The new timing could be done using a simple RC circuit driving the relay coil to slow it down...

[Monash_Armourer]

Your results will really depend on how good your knowledge of electronics is, and to be honest, how well you can actually solder and diagnose problems in your PCB (Printed Circuit Board) design. If your knowledge of electronics is not great, despite access to all the tools you can get your paws on, you're going to have issues.
To be honest, if you have access to a newer box that is not immediately in use, they easiest way to go about this would be to blatantly copy (Sssshhh! Don't tell anybody!) the ciruitry. If you know how to identiry components and make a copy of the board, it might take a while, but should be doable. Get somebody else to double check your parts list and so on before you start buying stuff. There are plenty of suppliers out there (Farnell might be a good start, but I can't remember whether they sell to indicduals or only buisnesses), but make sure you can source all parts first. If you want to copy an old box or an old design somebody has somewhere, you might discover you have all the components BUT one transistor that is no longer in production.
Somebody mentioned before a PIC programming kit, if you're prepared to learn, again you can simply copy the programming of an FIE chip you've "borrowed" off somebody. If you're really into electronics, the cost of a PIC programmer kit will be nothing anyway (I assume that you do not already own one).
I *intend* to build some boxes from scratch at the end of the year, and get my father (he does alot of PCB design work) to assist (ie. do as much as I can manage to coerce him into) with it all. I'll try and document it all as well.
The GPL box looks good as well, and already has everything laid out for you, and people you can probably go to with issues for help.
Good luck.

Darcy.

[EricS]

Originally Posted by Monash_Armourer

(Lots of stuff)

Or, you could save yourself a lot of time and just use the GPL design (for which you will still need a PIC programmer)...

[Monash_Armourer]

Originally Posted by EricS

Or, you could save yourself a lot of time and just use the GPL design (for which you will still need a PIC programmer)...

Yes, I saw this and while it looks good, I'd still be tempted to go down the route of "from scratch". Gives you the possibility of designing a box with everything you'd possibly need (like a cell phone jammer for instance, just make sure it's low power so nobody finds out... ). Perhaps this option is a bit easier for me as I have direct access to decent PCB design software, and a router table, so my opinion may be flawed.

The best suggestion though that I can think of, if you design from scratch, would be a simple IR remote, with a mute button and a weapon select button.

Darcy.

[Sboard1019]

I’m planning on using a few RC circuits and comparators for the initial timing. I have some of the basic circuits done but I’m nowhere near getting the blockage timing. I might be using a flip-flop and some more RC circuits for that. I do have access to a basic stamp and all the programming software but it’s too easy to use a micro-controller (though, when i go to put a cluck and digital scoring and such like that, i think that will be the only way to go. First round i want to stick with basic stuff though). I have an old LP box from god knows when, I’m guessing the late 80’s early 90’s because that was the last time WWU’s Fencing Club was active before me and a couple friends revived it. Though its broke (part my doing, part its too old) its shown me it can be done w/out a micro-controller, though I have no idea how to follow/real the circuits on this board. In fact the most complicated parts on it are some logic gates. The rest are Resistors Capacitors an few diodes and a couple blasted transistors (anyone ever heard of transistor man… I hate him). Anyways, I will be making a website and will keep it posted once I get more into it... look for it this summer.

And, thanks for all the input, it has definitally helped.

[ThatReallyHurt]

I've been working on a PIC-based box for a while now - I've got it working on a breadboard and it's immune to noise in any environment I can test it in. My big problem isn't programming it, but finding out how the timings actually work. Cost is ~$30CDN. It pulls about 30mA when idle.

I had one running on TTL last year (hooray for the LS123!), but it pulled 220mA when idle, not so good on a 9V battery.

I hate to be a stick in the mud here, but I should mention that if you're not properly educated and experienced and comfortable with electronics design and implementation, then make sure you run anything you build off a small battery. Even wall warts aren't necessarily 100% safe if something happens. Heck, run it off a battery anyway, then it's portable. Remember, some poor sod is going to be wearing it and sweating.