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Thread: Practice Sabre

  1. #1
    Just Joined Orfist's Avatar
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    Practice Sabre

    Is there a reason to get a practice sabre?

    I can understand a practice foil and epee; you can break the tip, wires and so on. I donít know enough about a sabre to make a call.

    Is it spelt saber or sabre?

    Thanks for your help.
    "to" and "too" are two words that are too ambiguous.

  2. #2
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    Mostly the reason to get a practice saber is because they're cheaper and minus a socket are more or less the same as competition sabers. The American spelling of saber is saber. English and international standards usually leave you with sabre. Either will be understood and usually accepted. Which you use may get a little fun poked at you from the other camp. That's about it.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  3. #3
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    In general a practice sabre has an uninsulated guard, an uninsulated pommel, no additional insulation onthe knucklebow of the guard, and no socket.

    For myself, the ONLY differance is the presence or not of the socket...everything else is the same (makes my inventiry a LOT easier). The cost differance is $10.
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    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Fencer
    For myself, the ONLY differance is the presence or not of the socket...everything else is the same (makes my inventiry a LOT easier). The cost differance is $10.
    The socket that you sell separately for $8. :)

    Mmmm, interesting question: Your price list doesn't specify which socket comes with the electric sabre. A 2-prong socket is sold individually for $8, bayonet (listed in the foil section) for $12. Is there an upcharge for bayonet sockets on electric sabres?

    -B
    Last edited by oiuyt; 05-17-2006 at 10:56 PM.
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  5. #5
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oiuyt
    The socket that you sell separately for $8.

    Mmmm, interesting question: Your price list doesn't specify which socket comes with the electric sabre. A 2-prong socket is sold individually for $8, bayonet (listed in the foil section) for $12. Is there an upcharge for bayonet sockets on electric sabres?

    -B
    Nahhh....I sell the bayos so infrequently, it's not worth the hassle of a seperate pricing. Elec sabre $75, regardless of socket type.

    Same goes for my grips...I don't charge a different price for a foil with a French vs asn idantical one with a Visconti.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Fencer
    Nahhh....I sell the bayos so infrequently, it's not worth the hassle of a seperate pricing. Elec sabre $75, regardless of socket type.

    Same goes for my grips...I don't charge a different price for a foil with a French vs asn idantical one with a Visconti.
    That there is the biggest difference. $75 for a saber? That's ridiculous and it's not just Sam it's about market. Sabers are cheap...assuming you buy all of the appropriate stuff a guard is like $13, socket $8, handle $6, nut $2, a cover for the lower end of the guard is $3 and the blade 20-25 unless I want something abnormally top of the line (which is largely pointless). That being said your club armory probably has alot of that sutff laying around for you to pirate (if your club is cool with that). If they're not you can buy a standard uninsulated guard and paint or tape the inside, put a little tape over the metal nut and knucklebow and call it a day. Although most people don't care about the tape etc. rules. I've fenced at large World Cups and had 3 or 4 sabers go through weapons check and get specifically marked as passing with no insulation on the inside and no cover for the knucklebow. (I guess since not having those things you really only run the risk of giving away touches they don't care so much?) The insulated nut is rather convenient. The rest I'd save. You should be able to grab a decent new weapon for between 30-50 bucks at most. Then again I'm a very poor college student who absolutely rails against anything remotely overpriced.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

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    Most practice sabres have a rectangular cross-sectional blade; whereas the regulation sabre has the correct three-sided blade in conformance with the USFA Rules 2005 edition. Thus the price differential.

  8. #8
    Senior Member rcmatthews's Avatar
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    I havent seen any rectangular sectioned blades, but would those even be S2000? Also, there is not much point in having a practice sabre, since its not like you are saving on the cost of blade or anything.

    A sabre guard for $13? May I ask where it is that you are shopping?

    Handles are more in the 10 dollar range, and i think a cheap leon paul guard is like 25-28, with uhlmann and allstar guards being around 30 for uninsulated and 40 for insulated.
    Ich steige ab, Hab keine Zeit, Muss jetzt zu den anderen Pferden, Wollen auch geritten werden

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    Just Joined Orfist's Avatar
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    THanks for your replies. Will I dammage an elecrtic saber if I pratice with it? How lond does a blade last for?
    "to" and "too" are two words that are too ambiguous.

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    The correct statement would be that Uhlmann/Allstar, and LP handles are in the $10+ range and by that I mean that the Uhlmann is like $8. If you don't mind the slightly softer rubber the Absolute or BG is like $4. The light saber guards, uninsulated sell for $15 online and I know I've seen $13 at NACs. If you want LP the rubber grip is now $8 and change and the leather is $11. The cheap LP guard is 21. The uninsulated Uhlmann is about the same. Maybe $25 if you go to one of the spots with the higher markup. I guess you should just look harder.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orfist
    THanks for your replies. Will I dammage an elecrtic saber if I pratice with it? How lond does a blade last for?

    No you won't damage it any more than you will by competing with it. The life of blades varies from person to person and blade to blade. If you hit rather hard or have a heavy hand etc. you might break them reasonably often. If not they're usually good for about at least 3-6months. I don't think I've had any last over a year that I used consistently for both practice and competitions, but if you're using them for specific things you could easily go a season and a half or so without replacing your competition blades (assuming everything goes well). Luckily they're cheap, so you can kind of go through them like water (comparatively). If you can get your club to make an order the prices dip sharply, I know we used to get decent blades for about $11 a piece for the club.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  12. #12
    Senior Member erooMynohtnA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcmatthews
    I havent seen any rectangular sectioned blades, but would those even be S2000? Also, there is not much point in having a practice sabre, since its not like you are saving on the cost of blade or anything.

    A sabre guard for $13? May I ask where it is that you are shopping?

    Handles are more in the 10 dollar range, and i think a cheap leon paul guard is like 25-28, with uhlmann and allstar guards being around 30 for uninsulated and 40 for insulated.
    I have a Leon Paul Etoile saber blade that's rectangular. It has two grooves cut into the the sides of the forte, but it's front and back are symetrical. I can't tell which side is supposed to be the leading edge, not that it matters, I guess. I just got it about a week ago, and it's marked S2000.

  13. #13
    Senior Member rcmatthews's Avatar
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    ok, so an allstar guard without a socket from allstar-usa is 25.

    a bg extra light guard, im not sure is it is insultated or not is 15, but in my experience they are very prone to bending and other forms of disfigurement, although they are very light.

    bg sells uhlmann guards without the socket for 27.

    our friends at leon paul have guards for 24, 28, and 40 respectively.

    insulating sleeves range from 2-5, though i guess you could do it with tape.

    i guess i didnt realize you were talking about the blue gauntlet guards. For me, they put the balance off because of their lightness, though admittedly i haven't tried very many configurations, or a terribly heavy pommel nut.

    If you put together a sabre with parts slightly above the super economy level, it comes out pretty much like this. I will use one of my sabre set ups as an example.

    Leon Paul guard- 28
    Leon Paul rubber grip- 8.50
    Cheapy plastic pommel nut- 2
    Two prong socket- 8.00 (i actually have a Negrini bayonnet on this one though)
    StM blade- ill say 25, im not exactly sure

    Which puts the totally right around 71 dollars, not to far off from the prices listed, though admittedly one could get by with something like this.

    BG ACG light guard- 15
    use tape for insulation on inside and around the pommel area- ill say free
    Cheap pommel nut- 2
    BG russian S200, 14
    BG 2 prong socket 5.00
    Thumbpad- 1 dollar
    I cant find the price on a bg handle- 5.00

    Which gives you a total price of- $42, can you build a cheaper electric sabre than that?
    Ich steige ab, Hab keine Zeit, Muss jetzt zu den anderen Pferden, Wollen auch geritten werden

    C'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.

  14. #14
    Senior Member rcmatthews's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA
    I have a Leon Paul Etoile saber blade that's rectangular. It has two grooves cut into the the sides of the forte, but it's front and back are symetrical. I can't tell which side is supposed to be the leading edge, not that it matters, I guess. I just got it about a week ago, and it's marked S2000.
    Is it like a foil blade? How thick is it up around the tip?
    Ich steige ab, Hab keine Zeit, Muss jetzt zu den anderen Pferden, Wollen auch geritten werden

    C'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.

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    No, you shouldn't get a practice blade.

    It is best to practice with the same blade you are going to use in competition, for unlike other articles of clothing, the feel of your blade can significantly effect how you fence.

    I understand using a practice lame (which I do) and a practice manchete (which I do also) as well as any articles of clothing, but I'd shy away from using a different blade and perhaps a different glove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Ralph
    Most practice sabres have a rectangular cross-sectional blade; whereas the regulation sabre has the correct three-sided blade in conformance with the USFA Rules 2005 edition. Thus the price differential.
    S2000 is a matter of stiffness, and has nothing to do with shape. Also, S2000 blades are readily available from $20-25.

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    Of all brand new parts for less than $40 probably not much less at least not through normal avenues. You talk some people into a free guard here, a discount there, blades on sale, and yes absolutely. You throw in the fact that a lot of guards will last a long time and so I rarely find a reason to get a new guard (even with 7 or so competition ready blades) and really I think I pay no more than $25 for a new saber ever really.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  18. #18
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5MDK
    S2000 is a matter of stiffness, and has nothing to do with shape. Also, S2000 blades are readily available from $20-25.
    Correct....actually, if you put the three different blades on a gabarit and do the flex test, foil's got the greatest allowable deflection, then epee, with sabre bring the stiffest.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member erooMynohtnA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcmatthews
    Is it like a foil blade? How thick is it up around the tip?
    It's 7/64" X 3/16" from the very tip to nine inches down; at about one foot down, it starts to become thicker.

    If you're familiar with Leon Paul's foil blades, you know they get pretty thick right at the base of the forte, this blade does that too. It doesn't have that quandrangle problem (/=/ shape instead of |=|) that some of LP's foil blades do. I wouldn't call it whippy, but it flexes more than some other S2000 blades I've used although more of the flex occurs at the middle than the foible. It's weighted toward the tip, but with a counterweight on the pommel, it's my most controllable blade. It can manage solid parries with it. I like it.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...e/DSC01927.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...e/DSC01931.jpg

    I ordered an LP France and LP Etoile, and I gave the France to a friend (I liked the France much better, actually. It was stiffer, but it was balanced more to my liking and felt quicker. There was more whip in the foible rather than middle). However, the France was cut the same way as the Pozdnyakov-Pro
    (http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/a...ia_arrows.jpg), while the Etoile was that rectangular shape.

    It also looks like Leon Paul has a new saber blade out: the "Chameleon." I think I'll order one. They certainly aren't expensive.

    In summation, the Etoile was more like a foil blade than other saber blades, but not enough to fool anyone. If you had told me that both weapons' blades were cut from the same blank, I would be slightly surprised, but I would believe it. Hopefully that's not too much information.

  20. #20
    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
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    I don't know whether or not they're still available, but all of the cheapest sabre blades used to be rectangular in section. Mostly Chinese-made, I believe. Unlike the Leon Pauls, they had no fullering whatsoever. ( Leon Pauls are technically I-section, most others are Y-section. ) They were stamped S2000 and I used to use them in competition all the time. I use S+Ms now because I prefer Y-sections and they're almost as inexpensive as the rectangular-section ones. Plus they come blued. However, I would not hesitate to use a rectangular-section blade again if I had to; I was never able to detect any inferiority in performance.

    AFAIK there is no requirement of a given blade profile in the rules. As KD5MDK said, the S2000 requirement is about stiffness, not section.
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