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For everyone planning to attend a tourney in North Carolina An FYI for anyone outside of North Carolina who may be looking to come to tournaments in our state any time soon...
The NC Division has instituted new requirements for an event to be a USFA sanctioned event (one where you can earn ratings, etc.). Because this change is happening mid-season, some tournaments already on the schedule may be cancelled or may be held as unsanctioned events.
Please see the NC Division web page for authorative updates on which tournaments will actually be sanctioned.
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Senior Member
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Wow Obviously, this wasn't a case of just looking the other way on some minor infraction. Someone please fill us in. We want to hear the dirt....
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Senior Member
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 Originally Posted by jdoiv Obviously, this wasn't a case of just looking the other way on some minor infraction. Someone please fill us in. We want to hear the dirt.... Taking a look at the now unsanctioned events may fill in a few blanks for ya.
Old dog + New tricks...  Take your time. Read carefully.
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Originally Posted by Mr Epee Old dog + New tricks... Touche
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Originally Posted by Mr Epee Taking a look at the now unsanctioned events may fill in a few blanks for ya.
Old dog + New tricks... HAHA!
(w00t) RebelFencer's Awesome Quote of the Week:
"Encouraging the average age of first intercourse to go below 16?"
-Army Fencer
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Does this have anything to do with that russian strong arm sillyness? Or is this ratings padding? "There is a fine line between clever and stupid" David St. Hubbins
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o grrr...im planning on going to the cfc tournament on june 3rd. as long as it doesnt get cancelled i dont mind so much about the rating business coz i think it might end up being NR anyways.
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Originally Posted by tbryan An FYI for anyone outside of North Carolina who may be looking to come to tournaments in our state any time soon...
The NC Division has instituted new requirements for an event to be a USFA sanctioned event (one where you can earn ratings, etc.). Because this change is happening mid-season, some tournaments already on the schedule may be cancelled or may be held as unsanctioned events.
Please see the NC Division web page for authorative updates on which tournaments will actually be sanctioned. Wow, I was wondering when this one was gonna go down...I know who I have to thank for a free weekend this weekend  I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
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Originally Posted by jdoiv Obviously, this wasn't a case of just looking the other way on some minor infraction. Someone please fill us in. We want to hear the dirt.... I not really interested in a "dirt" thread. 
I just wanted to get the word out there so that fencers outside our division or who are in our division but didn't get the message from our division president know what's going on.
The schedule may change. Events may be cancelled. Everything may be fine, and organizers might be able to schedule a board member to attend and certify the results. I don't know.
I just heard about it this week, so I expect that it'll be some time for all of the clubs to adjust. I just wanted to make sure that fencers planning to drive in for tournaments in NC don't arrive here and discover that the tournament is not sanctioned. Or cancelled. I know that a lot of us just go by what's on askFred.net. That's normally fine, but until NC tournament organizers have a chance to update things, just make sure to double check on the NC Division home page for the latest updates.
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Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Mr Epee Old dog + New tricks... I think I get your drift; but what exactly happend? Which tournaments might wind up with invalidated results/ratings?
Last edited by Frank Pratt; 05-17-2006 at 08:56 PM.
Frank Pratt
Rome Fencing Club; Rome, GA, USA
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Originally Posted by Mr Epee Taking a look at the now unsanctioned events Well, sanctioning was revoked from all NC events. I assume that RFC just had a bit of a "heads up" because we have members on the current board. It looks like we've already made the necessary arrangements to get our tournaments resanctioned. Not sure. I stay out of the tournament organizing side of things, so I can only guess. 
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Originally Posted by Frank Pratt I think I get your drift; but what exactly happend? Which tournaments might wind up with invalidated results/ratings? I think that you just have to wait for the national office to sort it all out. If tournament results get through the division and to the USFA, and no one notices any problems, new ratings are assigned, and new USFA cards with the new ratings are sent out. If the USFA later notices a problem, and there is even one event where the event rating drops, the problem can cascade to later tournaments (if that fencer's incorrect rating was required for an event's rating).
So...it's possible that events outside of NC were affected. It's possible that no results/ratings were really affected. It just depends. In any case, I think that the national office just wants added scrutiny at all NC events to make sure that we don't have any more errors.
And to make sure that they don't have to do another review of all recent results in the region.
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Fencing Expert
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A brief 1-2 paragraph recap of the basics of the issue, even without exact details, would be fairly useful at this point....
-B "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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Originally Posted by oiuyt A brief 1-2 paragraph recap of the basics of the issue, even without exact details, would be fairly useful at this point.... I really don't know the details. From what I heard about the division meeting, an error was noticed on some tournament results at a NC tournament. That prompted a review of some other events. I'm not sure what was discovered, but I think that some tournament results had to be restated a few months after the events.
It sounds like the restated results may have caused a review of results of tournaments in multiple divisions in our region to make sure that the changes from the restated events didn't affect those events. I'm just guessing at this point, but if I had to spend hours reviewing months of results for multiple divisions, I'd have a long talk with the division officers to make sure that I didn't have to do it again. I'm assuming that something like that happened and led to the new sanctioning policy.
That's the best I can do. I know people on the board, but I don't really talk to them about their board work. I'm afraid that I'm one of those fencers who's just here to fence. I turn in my proxy vote every year, and if that's the last I hear about what's going on in the division, I'm a happy fencer. 
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Fencing Expert
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Not sure I understand.
Originally Posted by NC Div website 1)The Division must not sanction any tournaments at which it has reason to believe USFA rules will not be followed.
2)The Division will send a representative from its governing Board to the tournaments it will sanction to ensure that the rules are followed. Sounds like rules violations rather than something quirky with what ratings changes were reported. It's unclear how having a division officer present fixes the latter, although it could be a useful check on the former.
Once some OTHER cause results in tournaments being desanctioned then classification changes can be invalidated, which could cause ripple effects.
Doesn't sound like something that would be an error in the reported results, but could easily be something in the conduct of tournaments.
side note: I fenced in an NC-Division event early this season, and despite the rediculously long drive and high gas prices, might easily do so again (especially during late-summer months when little else is happening).
-B "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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Essentially there were some who habitually ran tournaments which were actually in violation of USFA rules. Apparently a decent bit of the NC schedule is under review. As many as 17 maybe? The part that really isn't cool is that not only have other tournaments been effected, but that the ripple effect will undoubtedly hurt many, especially in the Southeast. I just spent the last hour trying to figure out if my rating was going to be invalidated and rolled back. I'm pretty sure that I am safe, however, there will be many who aren't that lucky and will recieve nice new cards from the USFA telling them that the rating they fought for and earned on that given day has been invalidated due to no fault of their own. As much as I joke about ratings inflations etc. I can't help but feel bad for anyone effected....(to which end I also apologize for making light of the situation with my remark about having a free weekend)... I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
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Tournament still on this weekend sanctioned or not Well, yes I got the email today. We are still having the tournament at our fencing school in Gastonia. I don't know why all the tournaments are now unsantioned in NC for the rest of the season (not just ours). We have had OIUYT at our tournaments, division officers from both TN and SC. All the USFA rules have been followed at ours that we know of, we haven't had any complaints from the USFA. As for padding the events for rating not us. The only high A rated tournaments that we have had were from fencers who earned their rating at national events (Ziechmann's, Brad Baker, Cheneys and the list goes on)
So, what is the mystery? I don't if you do let me know. If you made plans to come this weekend to fence but will not because we may or may not have a division officer here we will miss you. If you do, have fun and make the final four and get on television. "who do you think you are?"
"Do you think by making someone a knight, you make them a better fighter?"
"Yes"
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review yourself For those that our curious you can review our tournaments. All of our results our on askfred. I do not know if everyone else who has held a tournament in NC over the season has done the same? They would have to speak for themselves. Also our final four bouts in the tournaments are filmed so if someone really wants to review them I guess we can send the DVD's to them. "who do you think you are?"
"Do you think by making someone a knight, you make them a better fighter?"
"Yes"
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Fencing Expert
Array
Originally Posted by Padawan Well, yes I got the email today. We are still having the tournament at our fencing school in Gastonia. I don't know why all the tournaments are now unsantioned in NC for the rest of the season (not just ours). We have had OIUYT at our tournaments, division officers from both TN and SC. All the USFA rules have been followed at ours that we know of, we haven't had any complaints from the USFA. As for padding the events for rating not us. The only high A rated tournaments that we have had were from fencers who earned their rating at national events (Ziechmann's, Brad Baker, Cheneys and the list goes on) Just speaking to this, and without any information about whether any of the KOS events are those in question, I attended a KOS tournament at the end of last summer. I saw no indication that would lead me to question whether any rules were being improperly followed or applied.
One correction, the events I attended were not A-rated. I left before the sabre (which had 2 A's (not including myself), but ended up being B-rated). :)
-B "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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Senior Member
Array
As for padding the events for rating not us. The only high A rated tournaments that we have had were from fencers who earned their rating at national events
Originally Posted by oiuyt One correction, the events I attended were not A-rated. I left before the sabre (which had 2 A's (not including myself), but ended up being B-rated).
-B Too hilarious.
Could this be part of the problem?
Got Rope?
Last edited by Mr Epee; 05-17-2006 at 10:20 PM.
Take your time. Read carefully.
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